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Re: are panel games sexist?

Messages in this topic: 17 View All
Dean BedfordJun 11, 2009
 

 
The point being made by Victoria Wood is really about the "laddish
culture" of these programmes of people topping each other and so on.
It's arguable of course but I think a case can be made that this applies
in part anyway to JAM and this list doesn't really address her point.
You mention for example Kenneth saying "we shouldn't have women on the
show". Where's the woman who is well-known for the phrase "we shouldn't
have men on the show" or something similar? I love Aimi Macdonald and I
think she is probably my favourite woman panellist too and a focus for
the humour on most of her shows- but it has to be admitted it is mainly
as a butt of jokes and humour rather than herself making the jokes.

The one woman who really has gone toe-to-toe with the men in the
arguments and the bickering is Wendy Richard - and she is the only
person who could be considered a "regular" who eventually got dropped.

Quibbles - the first all-male panel was in the fourth programme of
series 7, not the third. (Although you could say the shows where
Geraldine Jones and Andree Melly chaired the show also involve all-male
panels.) You call June Whitfield and Joan Bakewell semi-regulars - they
appeared twice each or if you like at just one recording. You say "But
after (1984) a lot of new female players emerged: Wendy Richard being
the first of them." Wendy first appeared in 1988, four years later.
After her, the next woman to do more than just one solitary show was
Jenny Eclair in 1994. Two in 12 years (next is in 1996) does not strike
me in any sense as "a lot". In the same period (excluding one-show
appearances) 23 men "emerged".

On Friday, June 12, 2009, at 12:24 AM, Clitheroe Kid wrote:

>
>
> This is a silly thing for Victoria Wood to say. It certainly isn't true
> of
> 'Just A Minute'.
>
> Women have been on the show from the very first episode, in 1967, when
> Wilma
> Ewart and Beryl Reid faced off against Clement Freud and Derek Nimmo.
>
> Indeed, in its very earliest days the show was looked on (to judge by
> the
> remarks Nicholas Parsons made in early episodes) as being, more than
> anything, a male -vs- female competition. The entire first series had
> two
> male and two female panellists.
>
> As time went by, the four male regulars (Clement, Kenneth, Derek and
> Peter)
> became established, but this never entirely disrupted the original
> intention
> of having both men and women on the show.
>
> Series 2 actually had Geraldine Jones as a regular for the whole
> series. She
> faced Clement and Kenneth for that entire series, in an experimental
> format
> where there were only three panellists instead of the usual four, and
> where
> the same three people were used for every show in the series.
>
> The format of series 3 (where they returned to having 4 on the panel)
> had
> Clement, Kenneth and Derek, plus one female panellist: usually
> Geraldine.
>
> It was only when Peter arrived, in series 6, that the balance began to
> shift. But at first Peter was simply substituting for a year for Derek,
> who
> couldn't appear because he was touring Australia in a long-running
> play. So
> there was still room for a permanent female presence.
>
> Aimi MacDonald, who's my favourite female panellist of all time,
> regularly
> took the female spot in those days; and she was such a great player she
> lasted for years, rotating with Andree Melly and Sheila Hancock.
>
> It wasn't until series 7, in 1972, that we had the first all-male
> panel: in
> the third programme of that series. But only four of the shows (out of
> 26)
> had an all-male panel that year.
>
> And throughout series 8, 9 and 10 - between 1973 and 1976 - the regular
> foursome were alternating among themselves, so that there was almost
> always
> one guest panellist - though series 8 saw male guest panellists
> alternate
> with the semi-regular female players for the first time, in that fourth
> seat.
>
> That format continued throughout series 11, 12 and 13 in the late 1970s,
> although now the semi-regular female players also included June
> Whitfield,
> Joan Bakewell and Janet Brown.
>
> In series 13 to 15 there were occasions when the four regulars appeared
> together, but for the most part the practice of rotating them to keep
> one
> chair open for a guest continued; and after 1982 it was common for two
> guests to appear alongside just two of the regulars.
>
> It was not until series 20, in 1984, that male guests outnumbered female
> guests for the first time, and we had a couple of years where Sheila
> Hancock
> was almost the only female panellist still appearing in the show. But
> after
> that a lot of new female players emerged: Wendy Richard being the first
> of
> them.
>
> Overall, despite the perceived domination of the panel by the four
> regulars,
> the years prior to Kenneth's death in fact saw female panellists give a
> good
> account of themselves, notwithstanding the popularity of the four male
> regulars. The female players were so much an established feature of the
> programme that Kenneth was frequently moved to utter his famous
> put-down,
> 'We shouldn't have women on the show!'
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean Bedford" <dbedford@...>
> To: <just-a-minute@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 8:39 PM
> Subject: [just-a-minute] are panel games sexist?
>
> >
> > Yes says Victoria Wood and although she is talking about TV panel
> games,
> > clearly women haven't had a great run on JAM...
> >
> >
> >
> > TV panel shows are too 'male dominated', claims Victoria Wood
> >
> > Panel shows such as 'I'm Sorry I haven't got a clue' and 'Have I Got
> > News For You?' are too "male dominated" according to the comedienne
> > Victoria Wood.
> >
> > Wood, one of Britain's most respected comedy writers, has become the
> > latest television personality to criticise the laddish culture of
> > "testosterone-fuelled" comedy panel shows like 'Never Mind the
> > Buzzcocks' and the 'Mock the Week'.
> >
> > "A lot of panel programmes are very male-dominated, because they rely
> on
> > men topping each other, or sparring with each other, which is not
> > generally a very female thing," she told the Radio Times.
> >
> > She added: "I felt I held my own".
> >
> > The double BAFTA winning comedienne will appear in the 51st series of
> > the radio programme, I'm Sorry I haven't a Clue, the first show go on
> > air without Humphrey Lyttelton, who died in April last year, aged 86.
> >
> > In his role as chairman for 35 years, he gave the panel of four
> > comedians "silly things to do" in what was billed as "the antidote to
> > panel games".
> >
> > Wood, 56, will make her debut appearance on the show with veteran
> > panellists Barry Cryer, Tim Brooke-Taylor and Graeme Garden in a
> > recording chaired by Stephen Fry, who is currently 'hot-desking' the
> > role with Jack Dee and Rob Brydon.
> >
> > Wood, the creator of Housewife 49 and Dinnerladies, has become the
> > latest television personality to criticise the laddish culture of TV
> > comedy.
> >
> > Sandi Toksvig, who hosts The News Quiz on Radio 4, has also said that
> > female panellists were often edited out of the final cut.
> >
> > Toksvig said last year: "Testosterone-fuelled arguments between the
> boys
> > make it difficult. Women's jokes aren't about trying to top the last
> > person or 'win' the game," she said "I think that if more women were
> in
> > charge, everyone would get a look in."
> >
> > Bill Matthews, the co-creator of Never Mind the Buzzcocks agreed that
> > panel shows were male-dominated "bear pits" which were "too
> competitive
> > and testosterone heavy".
> >
> > Last year, Mariella Frostrup accused Have I Got News For You of being
> > sexist towards female guests.
> >
> > Describing the panel game as a "disgrace", she said that women were
> > invited to appear only as a token presence to be ridiculed by the
> > "testosterone-driven" team captains, Ian Hislop and Paul Merton.
> >
> > A BBC spokeswoman said: "There are far fewer female comedians than
> male
> > so despite wanting to feature more women on our panel shows we often
> > can't. We are working to address this issue though and many women have
> > featured on our shows recently or will be featured in upcoming series
> > including Would I like to you, Shooting stars and QI.
> >
> > Victoria Wood will appear as a panelist on the first 2 episodes of the
> > new series of I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue starting on the 15th June
> 2009
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So what do we think - is the problem that the men spend too much time
> > bickering with each other and Nicholas - and that's just not womanly?
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

 
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