Home  

Members  

Join  

Search  

Listings  

 
<<<<   3239   >>>>

Topic: are panel games sexist?

Message 1 / 12
Clitheroe KidJun 11, 2009
 

 

> --- In just-a-minute@..., Dean Bedford <dbedford@...> wrote:
> >
> > You mention for example Kenneth saying "we shouldn't have women on the
> > show". Where's the woman who is well-known for the phrase "we shouldn't
> > have men on the show" or something similar?

As a fan of the show, Dean, I'm sure you will be the first to admit that
Kenneth used that phrase humourously. He was not seriously asking for women
to be banned from the show!

Though billed as a panel game, 'Just A Minute' is really an improvisational
comedy, in much the same genre as 'Whose Line Is It Anyway?' Just like Paul
Merton and the stand-ups do today, Kenneth's role in the show (when he was
added to the panel in series 2) was to provide comedy, in the form of
spontaneous wit.

The other panellists quickly adopted the same approach; and those who
couldn't cut the mustard, so far as humour was concerned, fell by the
wayside. Clement Freud turned out to have a devastatingly filthy line in
humour; Peter Jones had a slightly subversive and actor-ish humour; and
Derek, like Kenneth and Peter, had also cut his teeth as a comedy actor.

These people didn't choose to become the regulars - they simply became
regulars by default, because they were the best players. The format was thus
self-selecting. The show rapidly became the survival of the fittest: and the
name of the game was wit.

Wilma Ewart and Beryl Reid were not suited to surviving in this type of
show, and rapidly disappeared. Likewise Geraldine James. You say that Aimi
was the butt of the jokes, but she lasted more than ten years on the show.
And, really, she was no worse at the game than Peter Jones.

But the men were more successful in their use of humour. They were simply
funnier than the women. And in my opinion some of the women were only there
on sufferance. You obviously felt that Aimi was one of those: I'm not sure I
agree, although she obviously used different tactics from the regular
foursome.

However, the show was *never* about the sort of laddish culture which you
see on "Never Mind the Buzzcocks". Although Clement employed somewhat risque
material at times, the show never approximated the approach of someone like
Phill Jupitus.

Under Kenneth and Derek, in particular, the show had an intellectual content
that's completely absent from all other comparable shows - well, those that
didn't have Frank Muir in! It also had, as I say, wit. Sadly, a lot of the
female *and* male guests who filled the fourth chair couldn't contribute in
either of those ways.

It is simply a hard game to play well. It's definitely a game that anyone
can play, but not everyone who tries plays it well. Most of the guests in
the fourth chair spent 60 seconds boring the pants off the audience (at
least until they had played a dozen or more shows). Wendy, bless her, was
never able to play it at the level that Kenneth or Peter or Derek achieved.

Viewed simply as an improvisational comedy, it has to be admitted that no
woman ever played the game to the same standard as Kenneth Williams; so the
question "where is the woman who said: we shouldn't have men on the show"
becomes a purely rhetorical one.

But I see nothing sexist in the show whatever: the cream simply floated to
the top, and the cream was Kenneth, Clement, Derek and Peter. Lots of women
and lots of men were tried out, and didn't do as well. That's life!

 
<<<<   3240   >>>>

Topic: Re: are panel games sexist?

Message 2 / 12
Dean BedfordJun 12, 2009
 

 
Your argument is similar to that of others who have replied, simply that
the men are funnier. I think this is true too but it begs the question -
why? Women are after all more than half the population.

the answer that Victoria Wood and Jo Brand and Sandi Toksvig have is
that the style of comedy on panel games is "laddish" and not a style
that women find comfortable. I am still not sure whether I agree (I know
some very quick-witted sharp-tongued women) but I can see their point.
And it's interesting that all three have had a taste of JAM - and
certainly Victoria and Sandi did very well - but they didn't continue on
with it.

Incidentally, I don't really see Aimi as being there on sufferance.
Perhaps I'll write something about her and her unique style on another
occasion.

On Friday, June 12, 2009, at 03:45 PM, Clitheroe Kid wrote:

>
>
> > --- In just-a-minute@..., Dean Bedford <dbedford@...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > You mention for example Kenneth saying "we shouldn't have women on
> the
> > > show". Where's the woman who is well-known for the phrase "we
> shouldn't
> > > have men on the show" or something similar?
>
> As a fan of the show, Dean, I'm sure you will be the first to admit that
> Kenneth used that phrase humourously. He was not seriously asking for
> women
> to be banned from the show!
>
> Though billed as a panel game, 'Just A Minute' is really an
> improvisational
> comedy, in much the same genre as 'Whose Line Is It Anyway?' Just like
> Paul
> Merton and the stand-ups do today, Kenneth's role in the show (when he
> was
> added to the panel in series 2) was to provide comedy, in the form of
> spontaneous wit.
>
> The other panellists quickly adopted the same approach; and those who
> couldn't cut the mustard, so far as humour was concerned, fell by the
> wayside. Clement Freud turned out to have a devastatingly filthy line in
> humour; Peter Jones had a slightly subversive and actor-ish humour; and
> Derek, like Kenneth and Peter, had also cut his teeth as a comedy actor.
>
> These people didn't choose to become the regulars - they simply became
> regulars by default, because they were the best players. The format was
> thus
> self-selecting. The show rapidly became the survival of the fittest:
> and the
> name of the game was wit.
>
> Wilma Ewart and Beryl Reid were not suited to surviving in this type of
> show, and rapidly disappeared. Likewise Geraldine James. You say that
> Aimi
> was the butt of the jokes, but she lasted more than ten years on the
> show.
> And, really, she was no worse at the game than Peter Jones.
>
> But the men were more successful in their use of humour. They were
> simply
> funnier than the women. And in my opinion some of the women were only
> there
> on sufferance. You obviously felt that Aimi was one of those: I'm not
> sure I
> agree, although she obviously used different tactics from the regular
> foursome.
>
> However, the show was *never* about the sort of laddish culture which
> you
> see on "Never Mind the Buzzcocks". Although Clement employed somewhat
> risque
> material at times, the show never approximated the approach of someone
> like
> Phill Jupitus.
>
> Under Kenneth and Derek, in particular, the show had an intellectual
> content
> that's completely absent from all other comparable shows - well, those
> that
> didn't have Frank Muir in! It also had, as I say, wit. Sadly, a lot of
> the
> female *and* male guests who filled the fourth chair couldn't
> contribute in
> either of those ways.
>
> It is simply a hard game to play well. It's definitely a game that
> anyone
> can play, but not everyone who tries plays it well. Most of the guests
> in
> the fourth chair spent 60 seconds boring the pants off the audience (at
> least until they had played a dozen or more shows). Wendy, bless her,
> was
> never able to play it at the level that Kenneth or Peter or Derek
> achieved.
>
> Viewed simply as an improvisational comedy, it has to be admitted that
> no
> woman ever played the game to the same standard as Kenneth Williams; so
> the
> question "where is the woman who said: we shouldn't have men on the
> show"
> becomes a purely rhetorical one.
>
> But I see nothing sexist in the show whatever: the cream simply floated
> to
> the top, and the cream was Kenneth, Clement, Derek and Peter. Lots of
> women
> and lots of men were tried out, and didn't do as well. That's life!
>
>

 
<<<<   3244   >>>>

Topic: Re: are panel games sexist?

Message 3 / 12
bobbyshaddoe3004Jun 12, 2009
 

 

I definitely feel that sometimes not more opportunities for women are granted on panel games, especially JAM.  the closest there ever was to a female dominated panel of JAM was when the show was on TV ten years ago, you had Wendy Richard, Linda Smith and Pam Ayers with Peter Jones or Wendy Richard, Linda Smith, Maria McErlane with Steve Punt.  although I sometimes disagree that woman aren't competitive, because if there is more than one woman on the show, they can sometimes be very catty.    I do agree though that sometimes when they have ONE woman on the panel that very often she's there as the token female surrounded by men, as though to say they have to fill their quota for utilizing a minority or something like that.    it kinda traces back to the many and varied Kenneth Williams' tirades about not wanting women on the show.  but the way he said it, it was though he was implying women are always on the show and not just that everywhere else, because if you listened to most of his tirades, he often describes women taking jobs away from hardworking men.    when I look at something at ISIHAC, the only women that were ever featured on the program were Jo Kendall, Denise Coffey, Linda Smith and Sandi Toksvig, and of course the ever silent and ever youthful scorer Samantha.    also sometimes I feel that women are treated in a very condescending manner on most panel games, which usually results in the chairman shamelessly flirting with that individual or showing favoritism towards the female or females in question, with the chairman saying things like 'darling', 'my love' and so on.    --- On Tue, 6/9/09, Dean Bedford <dbedford@...> wrote: From: Dean Bedford <dbedford@...> Subject: [just-a-minute] are panel games sexist? To: just-a-minute@... Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 3:39 PM Yes says Victoria Wood and although she is talking about TV panel games, clearly women haven't had a great run on JAM... TV panel shows are too 'male dominated', claims Victoria Wood Panel shows such as 'I'm Sorry I haven't got a clue' and 'Have I Got News For You?' are too "male dominated" according to the comedienne Victoria Wood. Wood, one of Britain's most respected comedy writers, has become the latest television personality to criticise the laddish culture of "testosterone- fuelled" comedy panel shows like 'Never Mind the Buzzcocks' and the 'Mock the Week'. "A lot of panel programmes are very male-dominated, because they rely on men topping each other, or sparring with each other, which is not generally a very female thing," she told the Radio Times. She added: "I felt I held my own". The double BAFTA winning comedienne will appear in the 51st series of the radio programme, I'm Sorry I haven't a Clue, the first show go on air without Humphrey Lyttelton, who died in April last year, aged 86. In his role as chairman for 35 years, he gave the panel of four comedians "silly things to do" in what was billed as "the antidote to panel games". Wood, 56, will make her debut appearance on the show with veteran panellists Barry Cryer, Tim Brooke-Taylor and Graeme Garden in a recording chaired by Stephen Fry, who is currently 'hot-desking' the role with Jack Dee and Rob Brydon. Wood, the creator of Housewife 49 and Dinnerladies, has become the latest television personality to criticise the laddish culture of TV comedy. Sandi Toksvig, who hosts The News Quiz on Radio 4, has also said that female panellists were often edited out of the final cut. Toksvig said last year: "Testosterone- fuelled arguments between the boys make it difficult. Women's jokes aren't about trying to top the last person or 'win' the game," she said "I think that if more women were in charge, everyone would get a look in." Bill Matthews, the co-creator of Never Mind the Buzzcocks agreed that panel shows were male-dominated "bear pits" which were "too competitive and testosterone heavy". Last year, Mariella Frostrup accused Have I Got News For You of being sexist towards female guests. Describing the panel game as a "disgrace", she said that women were invited to appear only as a token presence to be ridiculed by the "testosterone- driven" team captains, Ian Hislop and Paul Merton. A BBC spokeswoman said: "There are far fewer female comedians than male so despite wanting to feature more women on our panel shows we often can't. We are working to address this issue though and many women have featured on our shows recently or will be featured in upcoming series including Would I like to you, Shooting stars and QI. Victoria Wood will appear as a panelist on the first 2 episodes of the new series of I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue starting on the 15th June 2009 So what do we think - is the problem that the men spend too much time bickering with each other and Nicholas - and that's just not womanly?

 
<<<<   3245   >>>>

Topic: Re: are panel games sexist?

Message 4 / 12
Dean BedfordJun 12, 2009
 

 
here's a different perspective on the debate from Jan Moir of the Daily
Mail - copied more for amusement than anything else





Not enough women on panel shows? Don't make me laugh!

Who is funnier, men or women? After thousands of years of civilisation,
you would think we had moved on from this stone age level of gender
debate, but no. Here we go again.

This week it is the turn of Victoria Wood, who says radio and television
panel shows are 'too male-dominated'.

The comedienne, once the highest-paid funny woman in this country, feels
that females struggle to compete in these 'testosterone fuelled' shows.
Women are just as funny as men, says Wood.

So why can't they get a fair crack of the on air comedy whip? Well,
maybe it isn't fair, but who cares?

There are many, many thousands of groups of women in this world who are
deserving of our sympathy for their sexist plights, but British
comediennes with an airtime grievance sure ain't one of them.

And anyway, perhaps the lack of women on programmes such as Never Mind
The Buzzcocks, QI or The News Quiz has nothing to do with female guests
supposedly not being funny enough.

Isn't it far more likely that they are just too smart to want to be on
such dreary, egocentric panel shows in the first place? Especially if
they are fronted, as they always seem to be, by that blowsy, arch
boy-bore Stephen Fry?

My idea of hell? Being forced to watch or listen to endless re-runs of
Fry and a swarming smarm of his posturing fellow He-Comics as they try
to out-funny each other.

There is a whole dank substrata of the entertainment industry that seems
to be devoted to worshipping the supposedly ad hoc bon mots that drip
from the lips of Jimmy Carr, Jack Dee, Alan Davies, Phil Jupitus, Frank
Skinner, Russell Brand, Sean Hughes and - coming up fast in the outside
lane - James Corden, who is far too pleased with himself for comfort.

Really. I've heard funnier weather announcements than Alan Davies in
full comic flight.

And men like Jupitus and Hughes are only ever seen behind the desks of
panel shows. Have they even got legs, I wonder?

Who finds these men amusing, except a few male undergraduates who have
never been kissed?

Which makes it all the more surprising that someone such as Victoria
Wood feels excluded and wants to join in the panel game action.

Surely the woman behind Dinner Ladies and Acorn Antiques is far too
witty for the kind of adolescent banter that dominates these shows? I
bet they have asked her a million times and she has always turned them
down.

Yet Wood's complaint echoes the one made by Mariella Frostrup last year.

Despite, or perhaps because of, appearing on the show herself, Frostrup
felt women were only invited to appear as a token presence to be
ridiculed by the 'testosterone-driven' team captains, Ian Hislop and
Paul Merton.

That phrase again! Look, ladies. What most of us demand of comedy,
whether it is testosterone or oestrogen-driven, is that it is funny.

Sadly, the funniest thing about Mariella Frostrup - surely tokenism's
ultimate token woman - is her insistence that we take her seriously as
an intellectual.

Ultimately, why do women such as Wood and Frostrup waste time
complaining that the entry policy on panel shows is sexist?

It is rather like a battalion of deranged, angry women beating down the
door of a gentlemen's club only to find, once inside, a cache of old
duffers supping turtle soup and complaining about their prostates. Was
it worth it? Of course not.

Surely it is beneath them and their feminist wish for comedy equality at
all costs. Why drag ourselves down to the level of Jimmy Carr?

Yet, increasingly, any form of perceived exclusion - from politics to
panel shows - seems to rob women of any common sense.

They go berserk! 'Let us in,' they shriek, without contemplating whether
they really want to be inside this corroded comedy world in the first
place.

Sometimes it is not what is sexist, but what is significant that is
really important.

In the meantime, what do you call a really intelligent, funny,
quick-witted, hilarious man on a panel show?

A rumour.

Boom, and may I say it again, boom.

 
<<<<   3247   >>>>

Topic: Re: are panel games sexist?

Message 5 / 12
Robert TorresJun 12, 2009
 

 

wow!  that was certainly very thought-provoking to say the least.  --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Dean Bedford <dbedford@...> wrote: From: Dean Bedford <dbedford@...> Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Re: are panel games sexist? To: just-a-minute@... Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 4:36 PM here's a different perspective on the debate from Jan Moir of the Daily Mail - copied more for amusement than anything else Not enough women on panel shows? Don't make me laugh! Who is funnier, men or women? After thousands of years of civilisation, you would think we had moved on from this stone age level of gender debate, but no. Here we go again. This week it is the turn of Victoria Wood, who says radio and television panel shows are 'too male-dominated' . The comedienne, once the highest-paid funny woman in this country, feels that females struggle to compete in these 'testosterone fuelled' shows. Women are just as funny as men, says Wood. So why can't they get a fair crack of the on air comedy whip? Well, maybe it isn't fair, but who cares? There are many, many thousands of groups of women in this world who are deserving of our sympathy for their sexist plights, but British comediennes with an airtime grievance sure ain't one of them. And anyway, perhaps the lack of women on programmes such as Never Mind The Buzzcocks, QI or The News Quiz has nothing to do with female guests supposedly not being funny enough. Isn't it far more likely that they are just too smart to want to be on such dreary, egocentric panel shows in the first place? Especially if they are fronted, as they always seem to be, by that blowsy, arch boy-bore Stephen Fry? My idea of hell? Being forced to watch or listen to endless re-runs of Fry and a swarming smarm of his posturing fellow He-Comics as they try to out-funny each other. There is a whole dank substrata of the entertainment industry that seems to be devoted to worshipping the supposedly ad hoc bon mots that drip from the lips of Jimmy Carr, Jack Dee, Alan Davies, Phil Jupitus, Frank Skinner, Russell Brand, Sean Hughes and - coming up fast in the outside lane - James Corden, who is far too pleased with himself for comfort. Really. I've heard funnier weather announcements than Alan Davies in full comic flight. And men like Jupitus and Hughes are only ever seen behind the desks of panel shows. Have they even got legs, I wonder? Who finds these men amusing, except a few male undergraduates who have never been kissed? Which makes it all the more surprising that someone such as Victoria Wood feels excluded and wants to join in the panel game action. Surely the woman behind Dinner Ladies and Acorn Antiques is far too witty for the kind of adolescent banter that dominates these shows? I bet they have asked her a million times and she has always turned them down. Yet Wood's complaint echoes the one made by Mariella Frostrup last year. Despite, or perhaps because of, appearing on the show herself, Frostrup felt women were only invited to appear as a token presence to be ridiculed by the 'testosterone- driven' team captains, Ian Hislop and Paul Merton. That phrase again! Look, ladies. What most of us demand of comedy, whether it is testosterone or oestrogen-driven, is that it is funny. Sadly, the funniest thing about Mariella Frostrup - surely tokenism's ultimate token woman - is her insistence that we take her seriously as an intellectual. Ultimately, why do women such as Wood and Frostrup waste time complaining that the entry policy on panel shows is sexist? It is rather like a battalion of deranged, angry women beating down the door of a gentlemen's club only to find, once inside, a cache of old duffers supping turtle soup and complaining about their prostates. Was it worth it? Of course not. Surely it is beneath them and their feminist wish for comedy equality at all costs. Why drag ourselves down to the level of Jimmy Carr? Yet, increasingly, any form of perceived exclusion - from politics to panel shows - seems to rob women of any common sense. They go berserk! 'Let us in,' they shriek, without contemplating whether they really want to be inside this corroded comedy world in the first place. Sometimes it is not what is sexist, but what is significant that is really important. In the meantime, what do you call a really intelligent, funny, quick-witted, hilarious man on a panel show? A rumour. Boom, and may I say it again, boom.

 
<<<<   3253   >>>>

Topic: Re: are panel games sexist?

Message 6 / 12
CatJun 13, 2009
 

 
Well the day I begin to agree with the Daily Mail's stance is a day I hope never to reach.

So...erm back to the 'swarming smarm' for me then.

--- In just-a-minute@..., Robert Torres <bobbyshaddoe3004@...> wrote:
>
> wow!  that was certainly very thought-provoking to say the least. 
>
> --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Dean Bedford <dbedford@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Dean Bedford <dbedford@...>
> Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Re: are panel games sexist?
> To: just-a-minute@...
> Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 4:36 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> here's a different perspective on the debate from Jan Moir of the Daily
> Mail - copied more for amusement than anything else
>
> Not enough women on panel shows? Don't make me laugh!
>
> Who is funnier, men or women? After thousands of years of civilisation,
> you would think we had moved on from this stone age level of gender
> debate, but no. Here we go again.
>
> This week it is the turn of Victoria Wood, who says radio and television
> panel shows are 'too male-dominated' .
>
> The comedienne, once the highest-paid funny woman in this country, feels
> that females struggle to compete in these 'testosterone fuelled' shows.
> Women are just as funny as men, says Wood.
>
> So why can't they get a fair crack of the on air comedy whip? Well,
> maybe it isn't fair, but who cares?
>
> There are many, many thousands of groups of women in this world who are
> deserving of our sympathy for their sexist plights, but British
> comediennes with an airtime grievance sure ain't one of them.
>
> And anyway, perhaps the lack of women on programmes such as Never Mind
> The Buzzcocks, QI or The News Quiz has nothing to do with female guests
> supposedly not being funny enough.
>
> Isn't it far more likely that they are just too smart to want to be on
> such dreary, egocentric panel shows in the first place? Especially if
> they are fronted, as they always seem to be, by that blowsy, arch
> boy-bore Stephen Fry?
>
> My idea of hell? Being forced to watch or listen to endless re-runs of
> Fry and a swarming smarm of his posturing fellow He-Comics as they try
> to out-funny each other.
>
> There is a whole dank substrata of the entertainment industry that seems
> to be devoted to worshipping the supposedly ad hoc bon mots that drip
> from the lips of Jimmy Carr, Jack Dee, Alan Davies, Phil Jupitus, Frank
> Skinner, Russell Brand, Sean Hughes and - coming up fast in the outside
> lane - James Corden, who is far too pleased with himself for comfort.
>
> Really. I've heard funnier weather announcements than Alan Davies in
> full comic flight.
>
> And men like Jupitus and Hughes are only ever seen behind the desks of
> panel shows. Have they even got legs, I wonder?
>
> Who finds these men amusing, except a few male undergraduates who have
> never been kissed?
>
> Which makes it all the more surprising that someone such as Victoria
> Wood feels excluded and wants to join in the panel game action.
>
> Surely the woman behind Dinner Ladies and Acorn Antiques is far too
> witty for the kind of adolescent banter that dominates these shows? I
> bet they have asked her a million times and she has always turned them
> down.
>
> Yet Wood's complaint echoes the one made by Mariella Frostrup last year.
>
> Despite, or perhaps because of, appearing on the show herself, Frostrup
> felt women were only invited to appear as a token presence to be
> ridiculed by the 'testosterone- driven' team captains, Ian Hislop and
> Paul Merton.
>
> That phrase again! Look, ladies. What most of us demand of comedy,
> whether it is testosterone or oestrogen-driven, is that it is funny.
>
> Sadly, the funniest thing about Mariella Frostrup - surely tokenism's
> ultimate token woman - is her insistence that we take her seriously as
> an intellectual.
>
> Ultimately, why do women such as Wood and Frostrup waste time
> complaining that the entry policy on panel shows is sexist?
>
> It is rather like a battalion of deranged, angry women beating down the
> door of a gentlemen's club only to find, once inside, a cache of old
> duffers supping turtle soup and complaining about their prostates. Was
> it worth it? Of course not.
>
> Surely it is beneath them and their feminist wish for comedy equality at
> all costs. Why drag ourselves down to the level of Jimmy Carr?
>
> Yet, increasingly, any form of perceived exclusion - from politics to
> panel shows - seems to rob women of any common sense.
>
> They go berserk! 'Let us in,' they shriek, without contemplating whether
> they really want to be inside this corroded comedy world in the first
> place.
>
> Sometimes it is not what is sexist, but what is significant that is
> really important.
>
> In the meantime, what do you call a really intelligent, funny,
> quick-witted, hilarious man on a panel show?
>
> A rumour.
>
> Boom, and may I say it again, boom.
>

 
<<<<   3256   >>>>

Topic: Re: are panel games sexist?

Message 7 / 12
kj.naughtonJun 13, 2009
 

 
I couldn't agree more.

It's important when reading quotes from newspapers to understand the context. The Daily Mail has a reputation that some would consider right-wing and can often appears to be anti-BBC (which it seems to see as a bastion of liberalism, socialism, conservatism, republicanism, monarchism or whatever suits the Daily Mail's current agenda).

Frankly I wouldn't buy the Daily Mail if they were giving away free £10 notes in each copy.

All in my humble opinion of course. As the BBC would have to say, other opinions are available.

kJ

--- In just-a-minute@..., "Cat" <camc_84@...> wrote:
>
> Well the day I begin to agree with the Daily Mail's stance is a day I hope never to reach.
>
> So...erm back to the 'swarming smarm' for me then.

 
<<<<   3257   >>>>

Topic: Re: are panel games sexist?

Message 8 / 12
Dean BedfordJun 13, 2009
 

 
On Sunday, June 14, 2009, at 08:04 AM, kj.naughton wrote:

>
>
> I couldn't agree more.
>
> It's important when reading quotes from newspapers to understand the
> context. The Daily Mail has a reputation that some would consider
> right-wing and can often appears to be anti-BBC (which it seems to see
> as a bastion of liberalism, socialism, conservatism, republicanism,
> monarchism or whatever suits the Daily Mail's current agenda).
>
> Frankly I wouldn't buy the Daily Mail if they were giving away free £10
> notes in each copy.
>
> All in my humble opinion of course. As the BBC would have to say, other
> opinions are available.
>
> kJ

I thought the amusing thing was that the writer started out seeming to
belittle the whole idea of gender issues in comedy - but by the end was
arguing that women are far too sensible to take part in these unfunny
shows - which sounds a bit like the arguments she was rubbishing earlier.

She's trying to be provocative of course, it has to be seen in that
context.

 
<<<<   3264   >>>>

Topic: Re: are panel games sexist?

Message 9 / 12
dombell79Jun 14, 2009
 

 

> In the meantime, what do you call a really intelligent, funny,
> quick-witted, hilarious man on a panel show?
>
> A rumour.

Extraordinary. That's just like a joke I've told and heard told with that same punchline, but with a different setup: what do you call an intelligent, witty, well-spoken, relevant Daily Mail columnist?

Frankly I find this, to put it bluntly, misandrist column, its writer, and the "newspaper" in which it appears beneath contempt. (A reference to Oswald Mosley and the BUF would probably be a cheap shot, wouldn't it?)


-Matthew.

 
<<<<   3272   >>>>

Topic: Re: are panel games sexist?

Message 10 / 12
lindaJun 15, 2009
 

 
i was reading the raido times article that caused all this debate on sexism in pannell games and i have to say the quote given by victoria wood was'nt really as negative as the comments in other newspapers might lead you to belive .

most of the article was victoria wood saying how much she enjoyed doing clue but this is the what the papers picked up on , and i quote
" the relative paucity of women on isihac(sandi toksvig and the late linda smith are exception to the predominatly male line up ) is , wood feels , part of the nature of the beast. a lot of pannel games are male dominated because they rely on men topping each other, which is not generally a female thing "

actually just for the record there is actually 2 more exceptions . in earlier seasons there were denise coffee and jo kendall.

that to me anyway the above does'nt come across as a huge broadside on sexism in panell games .

cheers
Linda

 
<<<<   3283   >>>>

Topic: Re: are panel games sexist?

Message 11 / 12
dombell79Jun 15, 2009
 

 
Funny, I was just reading the Wikipedia article on ISIHAC after having heard today's episode (which I richly enjoyed, although I may just be easy to please in that regard), and also noted that there have only been five female guests on ISIHAC in its 37-year history (which may have something to do with the fact that the four-man panel of Tim Brooke-Taylor, Barry Cryer, Graeme Garden, and Willie Rushton only varied if one or more of them was either indisposed or on sabbatical). And even they aren't among the most prolific guests; Jo Kendall was only there for the first series, alternating with John Cleese before both left the show permanently and were replaced by Barry Cryer, Denise Coffey appeared intermittently over eighteen years from 1979 to 1997, and Sandi Toksvig and the much missed Linda Smith appeared in Willie Rushton's old seat on various occasions between four and twelve years ago.

And then Victoria Wood makes five. It's good to hear she enjoyed being an ISIHAC guest, though, as I thought she was very entertaining (particularly her renditions of "Hound Dog" in "Just a Minim", in spite of Barry Cryer's "Sir Clement Freud Memorial Challenge" for repetition of "said"!) and would like to hear more of her on it.


-Matthew.

 
<<<<   3295   >>>>

Topic: Re: are panel games sexist?

Message 12 / 12
Dean BedfordJun 20, 2009
 

 
On Monday, June 15, 2009, at 10:41 PM, linda wrote:

>
>
> i was reading the raido times article that caused all this debate on
> sexism in pannell games and i have to say the quote given by victoria
> wood was'nt really as negative as the comments in other newspapers
> might lead you to belive .
>
> most of the article was victoria wood saying how much she enjoyed doing
> clue but this is the what the papers picked up on , and i quote
> " the relative paucity of women on isihac(sandi toksvig and the late
> linda smith are exception to the predominatly male line up ) is , wood
> feels , part of the nature of the beast. a lot of pannel games are male
> dominated because they rely on men topping each other, which is not
> generally a female thing "
>
> actually just for the record there is actually 2 more exceptions . in
> earlier seasons there were denise coffee and jo kendall.
>
> that to me anyway the above does'nt come across as a huge broadside on
> sexism in panell games .

Thanks for that, I agee it's not a broadside but it is in the context of
Clue, which is possibly the least competitive of the various panel
games. Despite the "points win prizes" thing!