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<<<< 3950
>>>>Topic: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
Message 1 / 10
BobbyFeb 27, 2010
One thing I've noticed in the fairly recent episodes of Just a Minute is a shift in Paul Merton's behavior. In his youth when he first came on the show, he was something of a rebel, and an innovative one that not only argued with panelists but argued with Nicholas to no end. Nowadays, he seems to no longer argue with Nicholas' decisions or challenge his authority. In fact, there are some episodes that go by that have Paul pretty much towing the company line, not just with the audience, but with other panelists.
By which I mean, that when a panelist or the audience disagree with the rulings or challenges the rules themselves or show their disappointment at the fact that someone dared to interrupt someone, and it happened to be something they were enjoying, he will now remind them about the rules, as they have been for 40 years now.
I can understand Paul having a great love for the history of the program, but it just gets my goat that he now seems to have become essentially the new Kenneth Williams, the new face of the program who in his later years seemed to reach a comfort zone with the program and more often than not praise Nicholas for being the 'best chairman they've got'.
Its like he accepts all of Nicholas' decisions without a fight now, just tows the line and accepts his judgement like a good little boy, and that's simply not on. Granted, I'm only listening to the 2008 episodes at the moment, I have no idea what 2009 or 2010 will bring to the table, so maybe Paul gets some of his fire back in those recordings. Who knows?
<<<< 3952
>>>>Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
Message 2 / 10
kj.naughtonFeb 28, 2010
Hello Robert,
I tend to agree that Paul's appearances have changed over the years but, even if one accepts the assertion that he "tows the line and accepts his judgement like a good little boy" (which I'm not sure I do, but I'm not prepared to argue) then to say that that's "not on" does not follow at all.
I think the key is to realise that Just A Minute works best when there are a mixture of types of people on the panel. It would be an interesting debate in itself to identify the *types* of people on an ideal panel but, having given this absolutely no thought, perhaps we need an estabishment figure, a slightly risque figure, a raconteur and a rebel.
When Paul first came onto the panel he probably played the rebel; now there are other people who could do that and no-one who could play the establishment role. So he does that. The people on the panel are all performers performing. Not real life characters.
I'm reminded of Alan Coren who was regular on The News Quiz. He was, in real life, a fairly liberal character but on the show he displayed a right-wing persuasion, politically incorrect and perhaps even xenophobic. But he was playing a role that needed to be played to balance the show and no-one else would play that role. So he did. Or Al Murray whose main character, "The Pub Landlord", is also fairly right-wing and un-PC but who appeared on "The One Show" as himself. He commented on a piece about rehabilitation of prisoners to express a liberal view. One of the hosts said "I wouldn't have expected you to say that" whereupon he replied "I'm not the Pub Landlord. I play the Pub Landlord and there's a difference".
It's also the case that people, on the whole, tend to get less rebellious as the years go by.
So to expect Paul to display a similar character for all of the years he's appeared on JaM when almost everything else has changed - except of course for your hero - is perhaps not even a good idea and, almost certainly, JaM would be a worse show if he had done that.
Just my opinion, of course.
Cheers
kJ
--- In just-a-minute@..., "Bobby" <bobbyshaddoe3004@...> wrote:
>
> One thing I've noticed in the fairly recent episodes of Just a Minute is a shift in Paul Merton's behavior. In his youth when he first came on the show, he was something of a rebel, and an innovative one that not only argued with panelists but argued with Nicholas to no end. Nowadays, he seems to no longer argue with Nicholas' decisions or challenge his authority. In fact, there are some episodes that go by that have Paul pretty much towing the company line, not just with the audience, but with other panelists.
>
> By which I mean, that when a panelist or the audience disagree with the rulings or challenges the rules themselves or show their disappointment at the fact that someone dared to interrupt someone, and it happened to be something they were enjoying, he will now remind them about the rules, as they have been for 40 years now.
>
> I can understand Paul having a great love for the history of the program, but it just gets my goat that he now seems to have become essentially the new Kenneth Williams, the new face of the program who in his later years seemed to reach a comfort zone with the program and more often than not praise Nicholas for being the 'best chairman they've got'.
>
> Its like he accepts all of Nicholas' decisions without a fight now, just tows the line and accepts his judgement like a good little boy, and that's simply not on. Granted, I'm only listening to the 2008 episodes at the moment, I have no idea what 2009 or 2010 will bring to the table, so maybe Paul gets some of his fire back in those recordings. Who knows?
>
<<<< 3954
>>>>Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
Message 3 / 10
Robert TorresFeb 28, 2010
Hello KJ, You bring up some interesting points. The notion that panel shows would have to adhere to certain archetypes for panelists is fascinating. I wonder though if this can be traced back to Just a Minute's initial origins, especially with the establishment of the personality types of the original Foursome. Peter Jones was the sardonic wit, Derek Nimmo the erudite traveler, Kenneth Williams had his camp theatrics and Clement Freud was the uber serious intellectual. But even to only pigeonhole these individuals into these categories does a great disservice to the complexities of their personalities and to the overall complexities of Just a Minute itself. One particular archetype that seems to still exist even today is the role of the 'token female'. Because nine times out of ten you only have one woman on the panel, obviously not all the time, but it usually went that there were three men and one woman to represent 'the distaff side' as Nicholas is wont to say.
Anyway, I see your point that as we get older, our attitudes would change as we acquire knowledge and grow a bit more wiser. I guess I just never thought that someone like Paul would even want to take up the post of the establishment figure, considering a majority of his career in improv comedy has been based on breaking down establishment figures. He's done it to Clive Anderson on 'Whose Line' and he did it to great effect to Angus Deayton when he used to chair 'Have I Got News For You'. I guess I just miss that particular aspect of Paul, and find it hard to accept him as the 'establishment figure'. Its like having Charles Manson as a male nurse, or the idea of George W. Bush going on a speaking tour, its something of an oxymoron. Thanks for sharing your opinions, I find them very fascinating and quite illuminating. Rob --- On Sun, 2/28/10, kj.naughton <kj.naughton@...> wrote:
From: kj.naughton <kj.naughton@...>
Subject: [just-a-minute] Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
To: just-a-minute@...
Date: Sunday, February 28, 2010, 7:19 AM
Hello Robert, I tend to agree that Paul's appearances have changed over the years but, even if one accepts the assertion that he "tows the line and accepts his judgement like a good little boy" (which I'm not sure I do, but I'm not prepared to argue) then to say that that's "not on" does not follow at all. I think the key is to realise that Just A Minute works best when there are a mixture of types of people on the panel. It would be an interesting debate in itself to identify the *types* of people on an ideal panel but, having given this absolutely no thought, perhaps we need an estabishment figure, a slightly risque figure, a raconteur and a rebel. When Paul first came onto the panel he probably played the rebel; now there are other people who could do that and no-one who could play the establishment role. So he does that. The people on the panel are all performers performing. Not real life characters. I'm reminded of
Alan Coren who was regular on The News Quiz. He was, in real life, a fairly liberal character but on the show he displayed a right-wing persuasion, politically incorrect and perhaps even xenophobic. But he was playing a role that needed to be played to balance the show and no-one else would play that role. So he did. Or Al Murray whose main character, "The Pub Landlord", is also fairly right-wing and un-PC but who appeared on "The One Show" as himself. He commented on a piece about rehabilitation of prisoners to express a liberal view. One of the hosts said "I wouldn't have expected you to say that" whereupon he replied "I'm not the Pub Landlord. I play the Pub Landlord and there's a difference". It's also the case that people, on the whole, tend to get less rebellious as the years go by. So to expect Paul to display a similar character for all of the years he's appeared on JaM when almost everything else has changed - except of course for
your hero - is perhaps not even a good idea and, almost certainly, JaM would be a worse show if he had done that. Just my opinion, of course. Cheers kJ --- In just-a-minute@ yahoogroups. com, "Bobby" <bobbyshaddoe3004@ ...> wrote: > > One thing I've noticed in the fairly recent episodes of Just a Minute is a shift in Paul Merton's behavior. In his youth when he first came on the show, he was something of a rebel, and an innovative one that not only argued with panelists but argued with Nicholas to no end. Nowadays, he seems to no longer argue with Nicholas' decisions or challenge his authority. In fact, there are some episodes that go by that have Paul pretty much towing the company line, not just with the audience, but with other panelists.
> > By which I mean, that when a panelist or the audience disagree with the rulings or challenges the rules themselves or show their disappointment at the fact that someone dared to interrupt someone, and it happened to be something they were enjoying, he will now remind them about the rules, as they have been for 40 years now. > > I can understand Paul having a great love for the history of the program, but it just gets my goat that he now seems to have become essentially the new Kenneth Williams, the new face of the program who in his later years seemed to reach a comfort zone with the program and more often than not praise Nicholas for being the 'best chairman they've got'. > > Its like he accepts all of Nicholas' decisions without a fight now, just tows the line and accepts his judgement like a good little boy, and that's simply not on. Granted, I'm only listening to the 2008 episodes at the moment, I have
no idea what 2009 or 2010 will bring to the table, so maybe Paul gets some of his fire back in those recordings. Who knows? >
|
<<<< 3955
>>>>Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
Message 4 / 10
jeremy_keensFeb 28, 2010
Bobby
I imagine one aspect is that Paul, although you can't tell on radio, has actually got older since he first appeared on JAM, so perhaps he has mellowed anyway. And as has been suggested, he is part of the elder statesman group.
As to KW & PM praising the chairman: the best chairman we've got or ever had were (a) a catchphrase of sorts (not unlike the double entendre of the great cult) in a show with few catchphrases, hence Paul's referencing of them and (b) they seem to always have a hint of irony & sarcasm - thus KW could be smarming up to the esteemed chair in one round and then throwing a chair at him the next (usually metaphorically)
Jeremy
PS Any sign of the latest episode up?
--- In just-a-minute@..., "Bobby" <bobbyshaddoe3004@...> wrote:
>
> One thing I've noticed in the fairly recent episodes of Just a Minute is a shift in Paul Merton's behavior.
<<<< 3956
>>>>Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
Message 5 / 10
kj.naughtonMar 1, 2010
<<<< 3957
>>>>Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
Message 6 / 10
irishmanufanMar 1, 2010
well said jeremy . when i read the original post in this topic i did wonder ,if the oringinal poster was taking a joke a bit too seriously .
cheers
Linda
>
> As to KW & PM praising the chairman: the best chairman we've got or ever had were (a) a catchphrase of sorts (not unlike the double entendre of the great cult) in a show with few catchphrases, hence Paul's referencing of them and (b) they seem to always have a hint of irony & sarcasm - thus KW could be smarming up to the esteemed chair in one round and then throwing a chair at him the next (usually metaphorically)
>
> Jeremy
>
> PS Any sign of the latest episode up?
<<<< 3969
>>>>Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
Message 7 / 10
delmelzaMar 2, 2010
As a big Paul
Merton I wanted some time to think about this and try to be more objective so here are my thoughts:
Time "mellows' many people including Perfomers-face it some performers look Silly trying to be Anti Establishment after they hit 50+
Paul comes across in being Secure in his talent and not needing to "prove himself" all the time.
Paul like all of us can have an "off" day- it cannnot be easy to Funny/witty on Cue- even if that is your 'living"
I have seen Paul be slow/distracted many times on Have I got news for you but when "It" hits he can really be on a "roll"
I noticed that the last few HIGNFY that I saw while in London last fall Paul was more quiet than he used to be.
Having seen paul perform a couple times at the comdey club improv I have seen his willingness to 'step back' and let someone else have the spotlight ( although usually not for very long LOL he loves to take the mickey out of his friends- epecilly Josie)
The "best chairman" remark is paul carrying the Torch from Kenneth Wms. and it is Always meant as a Put Down on Nicholas.
Paul shows a true love of JAM still and is still able to take the mickey out of Nicholas or someone like Glyes.
Has Paul's manner of Playing the game changed? well in a way yes-he will sit back and let others do their thing more often but if he sees a good opening he usually does go for it.
Clement changed his game playing over the yrs too.
That is my 2 cents/pence. Miriam
--- In just-a-minute@..., "Bobby" <bobbyshaddoe3004@...> wrote:
>
> One thing I've noticed in the fairly recent episodes of Just a Minute is a shift in Paul Merton's behavior. In his youth when he first came on the show, he was something of a rebel, and an innovative one that not only argued with panelists but argued with Nicholas to no end. Nowadays, he seems to no longer argue with Nicholas' decisions or challenge his authority. In fact, there are some episodes that go by that have Paul pretty much towing the company line, not just with the audience, but with other panelists.
>
> By which I mean, that when a panelist or the audience disagree with the rulings or challenges the rules themselves or show their disappointment at the fact that someone dared to interrupt someone, and it happened to be something they were enjoying, he will now remind them about the rules, as they have been for 40 years now.
>
> I can understand Paul having a great love for the history of the program, but it just gets my goat that he now seems to have become essentially the new Kenneth Williams, the new face of the program who in his later years seemed to reach a comfort zone with the program and more often than not praise Nicholas for being the 'best chairman they've got'.
>
> Its like he accepts all of Nicholas' decisions without a fight now, just tows the line and accepts his judgement like a good little boy, and that's simply not on. Granted, I'm only listening to the 2008 episodes at the moment, I have no idea what 2009 or 2010 will bring to the table, so maybe Paul gets some of his fire back in those recordings. Who knows?
>
<<<< 3970
>>>>Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
Message 8 / 10
Robert TorresMar 3, 2010
I guess that's true. I remember Aimi MacDonald's stock and trade was her persona of a dumb blonde, obviously as she got older she couldn't keep doing that sort of thing. Hell, some of her final appearances on the program have her a bit more mature, yet still quite charming.
--- On Tue, 3/2/10, delmelza <delmelza@...> wrote:
From: delmelza <delmelza@...>
Subject: [just-a-minute] Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
To: just-a-minute@...
Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 3:23 PM
As a big Paul Merton I wanted some time to think about this and try to be more objective so here are my thoughts: Time "mellows' many people including Perfomers-face it some performers look Silly trying to be Anti Establishment after they hit 50+ Paul comes across in being Secure in his talent and not needing to "prove himself" all the time. Paul like all of us can have an "off" day- it cannnot be easy to Funny/witty on Cue- even if that is your 'living" I have seen Paul be slow/distracted many times on Have I got news for you but when "It" hits he can really be on a "roll" I noticed that the last few HIGNFY that I saw while in London last fall Paul was more quiet than he used to be. Having seen paul perform a couple times at the comdey club improv I have seen his willingness to 'step back' and let someone else have the spotlight ( although usually not for very long LOL he loves to take the mickey out of his
friends- epecilly Josie) The "best chairman" remark is paul carrying the Torch from Kenneth Wms. and it is Always meant as a Put Down on Nicholas. Paul shows a true love of JAM still and is still able to take the mickey out of Nicholas or someone like Glyes. Has Paul's manner of Playing the game changed? well in a way yes-he will sit back and let others do their thing more often but if he sees a good opening he usually does go for it. Clement changed his game playing over the yrs too. That is my 2 cents/pence. Miriam --- In just-a-minute@ yahoogroups. com, "Bobby" <bobbyshaddoe3004@ ...> wrote: > > One thing I've noticed in the fairly recent episodes of Just a Minute is a shift in Paul Merton's behavior. In his youth when he first
came on the show, he was something of a rebel, and an innovative one that not only argued with panelists but argued with Nicholas to no end. Nowadays, he seems to no longer argue with Nicholas' decisions or challenge his authority. In fact, there are some episodes that go by that have Paul pretty much towing the company line, not just with the audience, but with other panelists. > > By which I mean, that when a panelist or the audience disagree with the rulings or challenges the rules themselves or show their disappointment at the fact that someone dared to interrupt someone, and it happened to be something they were enjoying, he will now remind them about the rules, as they have been for 40 years now. > > I can understand Paul having a great love for the history of the program, but it just gets my goat that he now seems to have become essentially the new Kenneth Williams, the new face of the program who in his later years
seemed to reach a comfort zone with the program and more often than not praise Nicholas for being the 'best chairman they've got'. > > Its like he accepts all of Nicholas' decisions without a fight now, just tows the line and accepts his judgement like a good little boy, and that's simply not on. Granted, I'm only listening to the 2008 episodes at the moment, I have no idea what 2009 or 2010 will bring to the table, so maybe Paul gets some of his fire back in those recordings. Who knows? >
|
<<<< 3972
>>>>Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
Message 9 / 10
j_a_m_fanMar 4, 2010
I've also noted Paul's mellowing, certainly in terms of his appearances on Just A Minute.
I put it down to he has now become an accepted member of the BBC establishment - and even the general UK show biz establishment. Eg. He now does many travel shows and the like 'Paul Merton in India' or whatever - and they really aren't him, in my opinion. Another example of him being part of the general establishment was his visit to the Lord's test during the last ashes series. The camera picked him out in the crowd wearing a jaunty trilby style-hat. Now this is a man who didn't know what a 'yorker' was just 12 or so years ago in one episode, but the cricket at Lord's is about as establishment as it gets.
So perhaps he feels a responsibility to toe the line in JAM, possibly
he believes, and perhaps correctly, that the future of this pillar of British radio culture is firmly in his hands and he has to help conserve its format.
--- In just-a-minute@..., "Bobby" <bobbyshaddoe3004@...> wrote:
>
> One thing I've noticed in the fairly recent episodes of Just a Minute is a shift in Paul Merton's behavior. In his youth when he first came on the show, he was something of a rebel, and an innovative one that not only argued with panelists but argued with Nicholas to no end. Nowadays, he seems to no longer argue with Nicholas' decisions or challenge his authority. In fact, there are some episodes that go by that have Paul pretty much towing the company line, not just with the audience, but with other panelists.
>
> By which I mean, that when a panelist or the audience disagree with the rulings or challenges the rules themselves or show their disappointment at the fact that someone dared to interrupt someone, and it happened to be something they were enjoying, he will now remind them about the rules, as they have been for 40 years now.
>
> I can understand Paul having a great love for the history of the program, but it just gets my goat that he now seems to have become essentially the new Kenneth Williams, the new face of the program who in his later years seemed to reach a comfort zone with the program and more often than not praise Nicholas for being the 'best chairman they've got'.
>
> Its like he accepts all of Nicholas' decisions without a fight now, just tows the line and accepts his judgement like a good little boy, and that's simply not on. Granted, I'm only listening to the 2008 episodes at the moment, I have no idea what 2009 or 2010 will bring to the table, so maybe Paul gets some of his fire back in those recordings. Who knows?
>
<<<< 3975
>>>>Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Straight-Laced Conformist?
Message 10 / 10
TallguyMar 4, 2010
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