Just A Minute

--- On Fri, 6/12/09, Clitheroe Kid <clitheroekid@ hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Clitheroe Kid <clitheroekid@ hotmail.com>
Subject: [just-a-minute] Why are panel games funny?
To: just-a-minute@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 4:42 PM

Ah, Dean.

You remind me of the young man, who demanded of the wise old sage that he
explain all the mysteries of the world whilst standing on one leg!

Humour is an entirely subjective experience, so it's futile to ask why one
comedian is funnier than another. What's funny to one man is not funny to
his neighbour. Why is Ken Dodd funnier than Bob Monkhouse? Why is Rowan
Atkinson funnier than Larry Grayson? Why is Aimi Macdonald funnier than
Beryl Reid?

A reasonable argument might be made for all those statements; yet I doubt if
more than two people would spring to my defence if I claimed (which I do
happen to believe!) that Derek Nimmo was funnier than Clement Freud.

Of course, Just A Minute is not a "laddish" show, so the argument you refer
to isn't applicable here. As I've pointed out previously, the show has never
featured the laddish attitudes that you find on "Never Mind the Buzzcocks".
Even Clement at his most risque never approached that!

Would you define Julian Clary as having a "laddish" attitude? Or Kenneth
Williams? Or Derek Nimmo? Or Peter Jones? Of course not. And the presence of
women in the show has also helped prevent it from developing in that
direction.

In fact the direction the show has taken has been heavily influenced by the
control which Nicholas Parsons and (originally) Ian Messiter have exercised,
along with the producer. Especially in the choice of subjects. But also in
the choice of guests.

And by the dominance of the original foursome, and - latterly - Paul.

As for the rhetorical question which I posed, rather flippantly: why are
panel games funny? Well, I could do worse than point out that the
understanding that some questions are unanswerable is the beginning of
wisdom...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Bedford" <dbedford@ihug. co.nz>
To: <just-a-minute@ yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Re: are panel games sexist?

> Your argument is similar to that of others who have replied, simply that
> the men are funnier. I think this is true too but it begs the question -
> why? Women are after all more than half the population.
>
> the answer that Victoria Wood and Jo Brand and Sandi Toksvig have is
> that the style of comedy on panel games is "laddish" and not a style
> that women find comfortable. I am still not sure whether I agree (I know
> some very quick-witted sharp-tongued women) but I can see their point.
> And it's interesting that all three have had a taste of JAM - and
> certainly Victoria and Sandi did very well - but they didn't continue on
> with it.
>
> Incidentally, I don't really see Aimi as being there on sufferance.
> Perhaps I'll write something about her and her unique style on another
> occasion.
>
>
> On Friday, June 12, 2009, at 03:45 PM, Clitheroe Kid wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > --- In just-a-minute@ yahoogroups. com, Dean Bedford <dbedford@.. .>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > You mention for example Kenneth saying "we shouldn't have women on
> > the show". Where's the woman who is well-known for the phrase "we
> > shouldn't have men on the show" or something similar?
> >
> > As a fan of the show, Dean, I'm sure you will be the first to admit that
> > Kenneth used that phrase humourously. He was not seriously asking for
> > women to be banned from the show!
> >
> > Though billed as a panel game, 'Just A Minute' is really an
> > improvisational comedy, in much the same genre as 'Whose Line
> > Is It Anyway?' Just like Paul Merton and the stand-ups do today,
> > Kenneth's role in the show (when he was added to the panel in
> > series 2) was to provide comedy, in the form of spontaneous wit.
> >
> > The other panellists quickly adopted the same approach; and those who
> > couldn't cut the mustard, so far as humour was concerned, fell by the
> > wayside. Clement Freud turned out to have a devastatingly filthy line in
> > humour; Peter Jones had a slightly subversive and actor-ish humour; and
> > Derek, like Kenneth and Peter, had also cut his teeth as a comedy actor.
> >
> > These people didn't choose to become the regulars - they simply became
> > regulars by default, because they were the best players. The format was
> > thus self-selecting. The show rapidly became the survival of the
fittest:
> > and the name of the game was wit.
> >
> > Wilma Ewart and Beryl Reid were not suited to surviving in this type of
> > show, and rapidly disappeared. Likewise Geraldine James. You say that
> > Aimi was the butt of the jokes, but she lasted more than ten years on
the
> > show. And, really, she was no worse at the game than Peter Jones.
> >
> > But the men were more successful in their use of humour. They were
> > simply funnier than the women. And in my opinion some of the women
> > were only there on sufferance. You obviously felt that Aimi was one
> > of those: I'm not sure I agree, although she obviously used different
> > tactics from the regular foursome.
> >
> > However, the show was *never* about the sort of laddish culture which
> > you see on "Never Mind the Buzzcocks". Although Clement employed
> > somewhat risque material at times, the show never approximated the
> > approach of someone like Phill Jupitus.
> >
> > Under Kenneth and Derek, in particular, the show had an intellectual
> > content that's completely absent from all other comparable shows -
> > well, those that didn't have Frank Muir in! It also had, as I say, wit.
> > Sadly, a lot of the female *and* male guests who filled the fourth chair
> > couldn't contribute in either of those ways.
> >
> > It is simply a hard game to play well. It's definitely a game that
> > anyone can play, but not everyone who tries plays it well. Most
> > of the guests in the fourth chair spent 60 seconds boring the pants
> > off the audience (at least until they had played a dozen or more shows).
> > Wendy, bless her, was never able to play it at the level that Kenneth
> > or Peter or Derek achieved.
> >
> > Viewed simply as an improvisational comedy, it has to be admitted that
> > no woman ever played the game to the same standard as Kenneth
> > Williams; so the question "where is the woman who said: we shouldn't
> > have men on the show" becomes a purely rhetorical one.
> >
> > But I see nothing sexist in the show whatever: the cream simply floated
> > to the top, and the cream was Kenneth, Clement, Derek and Peter.
> > Lots of women and lots of men were tried out, and didn't do as
> > well. That's life!
> >
>