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<<<<   4136   >>>>

Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Strait-Laced Co...

Message 1 / 7
SnideukApr 13, 2010
 
 
Firstly hello to the group. I've read all the posts for years, but don't think I've ever posted (sorry Dean).
 
Forgive me responding to an old post as well (just catching up on a month's worth!), but this was such an interesting one, I felt the urge to add my thoughts.
 
I see Nick has taken a bit of a knock over some of the posts, and I think a little unfairly. It is true that he is getting on in years, and certainly in the last 5-10 years his responses seemed to have slowed. However I think that for someone of his age, it's only reasonable. That he manages to control the show as well as he does is amazing. I wonder how many of us will still have our faculties at that age!
I've been fortunate to attend a fair number of recordings and my view on it is that the editing of some shows seem to make Nick seem worse than he is.
In addition, he does have his stock "pieces" such as the opening of the show, the rules of the game, the end of the game.
Sometimes he gets thrown because of something that happens at the time, and then he often loses his place, which can make him appear a bit doddery.
Certainly in recent years I noticed there were very few pick ups at the end of the recordings. This leads me think there is less care in the editing of the show these days. Or vice-versa, there was more attention to editing the shows in the earlier years.
 
As for his relationship with Paul - I think there is nothing but great respect for each other. As Dean says, if you listen to the introductions they do on the Classic CD's then I think you can feel and hear it.
 
What some people seem to forget is that Paula has now been a panelist on the show, for longer than Kenneth was. Now for me Kenneth was Just A Minute, and I only started listening to it properly the year he died. Since then I've listened to nearly all the old episodes and you can see why he was such a lynch pin of the show. I think Paul has slowly taken on this role over the years.
He understands the show so well, and also cares so much for it, that I think (perhaps with Nick's passing years, and he not being so quick as he used to) he often does half the chairman's job himself, in a very covert way.
 
Very often you hear him refer to the old team of Nimmo, Williams, Freud and Jones. His occasional comments of "Very good chairman" always bring a smile to my face, because you know he is echoing Williams in a very loving and affectionate way.
Even at recording of the shows, when Clement was alive, you'd see him putting himself out to make sure Clem was okay. Even to the lengths of helping him on and off the stage.
I don't think anyone can deny the love of the show that Paul has and I think this is what (slowly) has changed his way of performing. With Clem now gone, he is the last of the "old" clan. No longer the new kid on the block. Perhaps that is why he has slowly changed (as well as obviously maturing over the years - are any of us like we were twenty years ago?) and now adopts a slightly different way of playing the game.
 
Whatever the reason I think without Paul or Nick the show would be lost, and quite honestly, I'm unsure whether it would continue, and even if it did, whether it would be the show I am used to hearing.
 
Anyway, nuff said I think.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 06/03/2010 23:58:39 GMT Daylight Time, dbedford@... writes:

okay I'll weigh in on Paul. He said in one of the shows last year - and made a similar remark either on the Classic CDs or in an interview somewhere - that he was conscious of winning the show too often and dominating too much, and was trying to let the others all have a fair go. There are shows in the early 90s where Paul probably says more than the other three panellists combined, and we don't hear very much even from people as funny as Graham Norton, Linda Smith and Julian Clary. Whether this is at the behest of a producer or off his own bat, Paul seems to be less competitive, less willing to get into every round. I do think it's good that we are hearing more from some of the others, though I'd hate to feel Paul felt too constrained. Sometimes we go five minutes or more without hearing Paul in some shows this year and I'm not sure that that's a good thing.
 
Still I do feel that Paul remains the glue that holds things together. I've referred before to the remark David Hatch once made that he used to occasionally signal to Kenneth Williams to jump in if he felt the show was becoming  a bit dull and people were getting bogged down. That's always the fear to me, that the show gets bogged down in "repetition of he" type challenges and no-one gets going. I think the show this week got derailed a bit with trivial challenges. It would be interesting to know how many times people talked on the subject for more than say 10 seconds. It's not impossible to be funny in a few seconds, but the show works better if people are allowed to get their "flow" going. It's no coincidence that Paul wasn't there this week. He always jumps in if what's being said is boring and says something that gets people laughing again. The only other person with a similar command, I think, is Graham Norton, and personally I would have Graham on the panel if Paul isn't there. I suspect though that Paul will miss few shows in the immediate future.
 
Has Paul mellowed? I don't know if that's the word I'd use. He's not one of the "alternative" younger comedians any more. He's in his mid 50s and he's been lead comic on a leading BBCTV comedy show and a leading BBC radio comedy show for 20 years each now, so he's clearly mainstream these days. I haven't seen Have I Got News For You for a couple of years but before that I didn't notice him getting any softer in his jabs and on JAM he's still quite capable of cutting remarks. I wonder though if he is trying to broaden his comedy a tad. Insult humour is good and works on JAM - it doesn't have to be all that he does. Improvisation is about trying things out and if anyone on the show is in a position to be original, it surely must be Paul.
 
Turning to whether "he accepts all of Nicholas' decisions without a fight now, just tows the line and accepts his judgement like a good little boy" I think the first thing to say is that whether the panellists are praising Nicholas or rubbishing Nicholas, it's all meant in humour. It all plays to JAM's longest running joke, commentary on how Nicholas chairs the show. Same with Kenneth Williams. The joke works either way because Nicholas is neither as bad nor as good as they say and because Nicholas is such a willing target. It's clear from the Classic CDs that Paul does have a great deal of respect for Nicholas.
 
Paul and the others do still take jabs at Nicholas. Perhaps they do not make the full production number of it that they used to.
 
But I do think that the death of Clement and Nicholas's advanced age combine to make criticism of Nicholas more problematic. At 86 and still with a reasonably busy show biz career, Nicholas almost certainly has the respect of all of the others on the show. His is an incredible record. The fact that the other panellists are between 30 and 50 years younger than Nicholas makes some insults off-limits I think. Remember when Kenneth used to say "they have to wheel him out here in a bath chair, and inject him with Queen's royal jelly!" Now that Nicholas is of an age when many people would be under nursing care, that sort of remark doesn't work so well. I think while Clement, roughly the same age, was there and if not leading the charge against Nicholas, certainly supporting it, these taunts were more acceptable. But now Clement isn't there, I'm sure that the panellists are wary of seeming too harsh about Nicholas.
 
As I say the panellists do still make jokes about Nicholas, but I think they are wary of sounding too mean.
 
The interesting thing is what this means for the future of the show and what effect Clement's death is having. It seems from the various things that have been said that while people had a lot of respect for Clement, he did at times make some people uncomfortable. I think this season in particular had a lot of fun and laughter. Is it possible people are more relaxed without Clement's brooding presence? On the other hand the possibility is always there that the show will lose its shape without Clement to care about the rules and the score - though Gyles Brandreth and Sue Perkins are perhaps taking over that role as the competitive players of the game.
 
I expect if Nicholas retired/died and say Gyles Brandreth took over as chairman, he would immediately become a target for insults and abuse, because it works in a game where so few rulings are clear-cut, and because, like Nicholas, he is a great target.
 
It'll be interesting to see how the show develops in the next few years but with an established core cast, Paul, Graham, Tony, Sue, Gyles, Kit, Jenny, Julian, Chris, Stephen, Josie, Charles, Liza, Tim, Pam, most of whom have now been around 10 years or more, I feel that the show is in a strong position - and also perhaps poised to develop into something slightly different from how the show sounded say 10 years ago.
 

 
<<<<   4137   >>>>

Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Strait-Laced Co...

Message 2 / 7
delmelzaApr 13, 2010
 
 
Very good post. I have heard before about how Paul 'looked after" Clement and there was a nice picture of the two of them online that reflected their relationship and of course that Tribute radio special Paul did for Clement. Miriam

Photo link for those who have not seen it

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2007/04/27/mertonfreud460.jpg




--- In just-a-minute@..., Snideuk@... wrote:
>
>
> Firstly hello to the group. I've read all the posts for years, but don't
> think I've ever posted (sorry Dean).
>
> Forgive me responding to an old post as well (just catching up on a month's
> worth!), but this was such an interesting one, I felt the urge to add my
> thoughts.
>
> I see Nick has taken a bit of a knock over some of the posts, and I think a
> little unfairly. It is true that he is getting on in years, and certainly
> in the last 5-10 years his responses seemed to have slowed. However I think
> that for someone of his age, it's only reasonable. That he manages to
> control the show as well as he does is amazing. I wonder how many of us will
> still have our faculties at that age!
> I've been fortunate to attend a fair number of recordings and my view on it
> is that the editing of some shows seem to make Nick seem worse than he is.
> In addition, he does have his stock "pieces" such as the opening of the
> show, the rules of the game, the end of the game.
> Sometimes he gets thrown because of something that happens at the time, and
> then he often loses his place, which can make him appear a bit doddery.
> Certainly in recent years I noticed there were very few pick ups at the end
> of the recordings. This leads me think there is less care in the editing
> of the show these days. Or vice-versa, there was more attention to editing
> the shows in the earlier years.
>
> As for his relationship with Paul - I think there is nothing but great
> respect for each other. As Dean says, if you listen to the introductions they
> do on the Classic CD's then I think you can feel and hear it.
>
> What some people seem to forget is that Paula has now been a panelist on
> the show, for longer than Kenneth was. Now for me Kenneth was Just A Minute,
> and I only started listening to it properly the year he died. Since then
> I've listened to nearly all the old episodes and you can see why he was such
> a lynch pin of the show. I think Paul has slowly taken on this role over
> the years.
> He understands the show so well, and also cares so much for it, that I
> think (perhaps with Nick's passing years, and he not being so quick as he used
> to) he often does half the chairman's job himself, in a very covert way.
>
> Very often you hear him refer to the old team of Nimmo, Williams, Freud and
> Jones. His occasional comments of "Very good chairman" always bring a
> smile to my face, because you know he is echoing Williams in a very loving and
> affectionate way.
> Even at recording of the shows, when Clement was alive, you'd see him
> putting himself out to make sure Clem was okay. Even to the lengths of helping
> him on and off the stage.
> I don't think anyone can deny the love of the show that Paul has and I
> think this is what (slowly) has changed his way of performing. With Clem now
> gone, he is the last of the "old" clan. No longer the new kid on the block.
> Perhaps that is why he has slowly changed (as well as obviously maturing
> over the years - are any of us like we were twenty years ago?) and now adopts
> a slightly different way of playing the game.
>
> Whatever the reason I think without Paul or Nick the show would be lost,
> and quite honestly, I'm unsure whether it would continue, and even if it did,
> whether it would be the show I am used to hearing.
>
> Anyway, nuff said I think.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

 
<<<<   4138   >>>>

Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Strait-Laced Co...

Message 3 / 7
SnideukApr 13, 2010
 
 
That's a really nice picture, and certainly reminds me of those recordings where Clem would sit very quietly, almost sadly in a strange sort of way, and then Paul would whisper something in his ear and he's give a little chuckle. Or the way that Clem would pass a note to Paul and get the same response.
 
Indeed, I think those moments sort of explain even more greatly how Paul feels and cares about the show.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 13/04/2010 17:19:24 GMT Daylight Time, delmelza@... writes:
Very good post. I have heard before about how Paul 'looked after" Clement and there was a nice picture of the two of them online that reflected their relationship and of course that Tribute radio special Paul did for Clement. Miriam

Photo link for those who have not seen it

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2007/04/27/mertonfreud460.jpg
 

 
<<<<   4140   >>>>

Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Strait-Laced Co...

Message 4 / 7
StevenApr 13, 2010
 
 
I took a friend to one of the recordings at the Shaw Theatre, and her comment at the end was 'I always thought Clement was so miserable... he always sounds it, but watching him live he never stopped smiling and laughing.'

I fondly recall going to one of his last recordings at Broadcasting House, and at the end of the show he just stood at the front of the stage. Knowing his famed antipathy toward signing autographed I went up and gingerly put out a hand to shake his. He shook mine with a gracious smile. I said how much I had enjoyed everything he had done. A couple of months later he had died.

People should stop knocking Nick... he is the lynch pin of the show, and it will NOT be the same when he can no longer take the chair. I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue is NOT what it was without Humph, just a pale imitation. I dread the day Nick is not there to run the show.
 
<<<<   4141   >>>>

Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Strait-Laced Co...

Message 5 / 7
SnideukApr 13, 2010
 
 
Couldn't agree more, on all points, Steve. I think to fully understand Clement's personality on JAM you really had to see him perform in the flesh. As is often the case, anyone with a very dry sense of humour can come across as waspish or miserable. My over-riding memory (admittedly of his latter years) of Clement was a quiet man, who had a wicked sense of humour and whilst I'm sure he could be a git at times, always seemed pleased to be part of the JAM show.
 
As for Nick - I refer to my previous post. When he goes, I think the show (either in spirit or being) will.
 
 
In a message dated 13/04/2010 22:53:16 GMT Daylight Time, stevenwickham@... writes:
I took a friend to one of the recordings at the Shaw Theatre, and her comment at the end was 'I always thought Clement was so miserable... he always sounds it, but watching him live he never stopped smiling and laughing.'

I fondly recall going to one of his last recordings at Broadcasting House, and at the end of the show he just stood at the front of the stage. Knowing his famed antipathy toward signing autographed I went up and gingerly put out a hand to shake his. He shook mine with a gracious smile. I said how much I had enjoyed everything he had done. A couple of months later he had died.

People should stop knocking Nick... he is the lynch pin of the show, and it will NOT be the same when he can no longer take the chair. I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue is NOT what it was without Humph, just a pale imitation. I dread the day Nick is not there to run the show.
 

 
<<<<   4146   >>>>

Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Strait-Laced Co...

Message 6 / 7
DeanApr 17, 2010
 
 
When I saw JAM in person back in 2002, I was amazed that the bloke sitting impassively, never smiling at what anyone else said was Paul - and the one giggling and laughing throughout and whispering comments to his neighbour was Clement...
 
 
 

From: Snideuk@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 5:25 PM
To: just-a-minute@...
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Strait-Laced Co...

 

Couldn't agree more, on all points, Steve. I think to fully understand Clement's personality on JAM you really had to see him perform in the flesh. As is often the case, anyone with a very dry sense of humour can come across as waspish or miserable. My over-riding memory (admittedly of his latter years) of Clement was a quiet man, who had a wicked sense of humour and whilst I'm sure he could be a git at times, always seemed pleased to be part of the JAM show.
 
As for Nick - I refer to my previous post. When he goes, I think the show (either in spirit or being) will.
 
.


 
<<<<   4147   >>>>

Topic: Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Strait-Laced Co...

Message 7 / 7
DeanApr 17, 2010
 
 
The show has changed a lot every time major players left - when Kenneth died, when Derek and Peter died, and I think the show is sounding a lot different now without Clement. So it will sound different without Nicholas. I hope whoever the new host is tries to do his or her own thing rather than mimick Nicholas - that's why I hope for an adventurous pick like Julian Clary or David Mitchell or Liza Tarbuck rather than say Gyles..
 
On Clue, I thought it a mistake to just write the same scripts they would have written for Humph and get the new chairman to read them. But Clue is all about familiar jokes and I guess the feeling was they can't change without losing that...
 
 
 

From: Steven
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:39 PM
To: just-a-minute@...
Subject: [just-a-minute] Re: Paul Merton: Innovative Rebel turned Strait-Laced Co...

 

I took a friend to one of the recordings at the Shaw Theatre, and her comment at the end was 'I always thought Clement was so miserable... he always sounds it, but watching him live he never stopped smiling and laughing.'

I fondly recall going to one of his last recordings at Broadcasting House, and at the end of the show he just stood at the front of the stage. Knowing his famed antipathy toward signing autographed I went up and gingerly put out a hand to shake his. He shook mine with a gracious smile. I said how much I had enjoyed everything he had done. A couple of months later he had died.

People should stop knocking Nick... he is the lynch pin of the show, and it will NOT be the same when he can no longer take the chair. I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue is NOT what it was without Humph, just a pale imitation. I dread the day Nick is not there to run the show.


 
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