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Topic: The Carte Blanche of Kenneth Williams

Message 1 / 3
Clitheroe KidOct 29, 2010
 

 
I feel I have to put in my 2 cents worth here, for what it's worth...

Kenneth was a consumate professional, not the egocentric maniac you
describe. What you haven't allowed for is that the show was controlled by
the Producer, not by Kenneth. And if you stop to think about it for a
moment, you'll realise that whatever Kenneth might do or say in the studio
would never make it onto the broadcast tape if the Producer didn't want it
there.

In point of fact, as I've mentioned before - and others have too - Kenneth
had an arrangement with the Producer, whereby if the latter felt that the
show was too flat he would give Kenneth a sign to raise the ante, and
Kenneth would go into one of his rants. The Producer would then give Kenneth
another sign, and he would shut up again.

It was a measure of Kenneth's ability, that he could raise the show whenever
it needed it, even if this production trick did have the effect of making
him look a bit schizophrenic. He would be improvising off-the-cuff, so he
might well attack Peter Jones in one edition, only to praise him the
following week.

You should realise, too, that this is comedy. The panellists were free to
say anything that would get a laugh; being dull was the only way of giving
offence. Kenneth didn't have to believe in what he was saying, and it didn't
have to be true. It was all done in the cause of achieving a comic effect.

It wouldn't be fair to expect consistency. The panel were trying to
entertain. It wasn't a court of law, and their remarks weren't given under
oath. Paul Merton's flights of surreal fantasy in later years were plainly
only flights of fancy. Kenneth's were not so obviously made up. But you're
mistaking Kenneth as being serious, when he was merely trying to be funny.

He knew how to get the audience going, and how to work them up to fever
pitch, and no one else on the panel could do that - then or now. And Kenneth
could make *any* subject funny...

Clitheroe Kid

Stephen Poppitt & Sandra Skuse
Jimmy Clitheroe: The Kid Himself
http://www.JimmyClitheroe.co.uk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby" <bobbyshaddoe3004@...>
To: <just-a-minute@...>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:54 AM
Subject: [just-a-minute] The Carte Blanche of Kenneth Williams


> This is something that no doubt has fandom divided regarding the
appreciation of Kenneth Williams. Kenneth had a style of playing the game
that often played on his strengths as a comedic performer. No one on the
show was quite like Kenneth. But often his style tended to consist on
putting on funny voices or stretching words out, and adding several
syllables into one syllable words. In addition, he just seemed to be given
free reign to act like a immature brat, often screaming and bullying his
fellow panelists (usually the ladies), and then turns around and does the
exact opposite, often denying that he would ever stoop to such behavior mere
moments after finishing one of his disgraceful tirades. On top of that, he
would often decry and condemn other panelists for trying to do what he does
on a regular basis, claiming that he never does the very thing he's
challenging them on. And it reached an apex largely during the 70s but
moreso in the 80s when Ian Messiter, Nicholas Parsons, and even the
producers of the show began to cater to this outrageous behavior, or even
feed his overinflated ego.
>
> something else that I tended to notice was a change of opinion regarding
his attitude towards Peter Jones that shifted from the early 70's to the
1980's. in the 70's it often seemed like Kenneth and Peter were rivals,
largely because Peter was the first to openly challenge Kenneth's mannerisms
and his outrageous behavior. this was of course fairly early in Peter
Jones' involvement on the program, and there always seemed to be a sense of
one upmanship between them, whenever Peter tried to start speaking on
something Kenneth would be down on him like a ton of bricks, and Peter would
try to get his own back (sometimes not always succeeding). but I recall one
episode when Peter had managed to get into the lead for the first time since
coming onto the program, and he commented that Kenneth seemed to be siding
with Clement against him just because he happened to be in the lead for the
first time in 8 weeks. and then two subjects later, Kenneth managed to take
the lead and at the end of the round, Kenneth pretty much let Peter have it
saying 'So there you are Peter Jones!' even though, as Nicholas pointed
out, he had been in direct competition with Clement Freud in the previous
round, and Kenneth replied 'because he was so smug when he was four in the
lead, so smug. just sitting there like a cat with the cream'. Kenneth was
also one to always jump on Peter and tell him to shut up if he's got nothing
to say on a subject.
>
> But in the 80's, Kenneth seemed more complimentary towards Peter. one
occasion when Peter said he wished he could speak more fluently and
elegantly, Kenneth challenged on deviation, saying that Peter Jones already
speaks quite fluently and elegantly. And goes on to heap praise upon praise
on him, and this actually manages to get Kenneth the subject.
>
> still, he did bring a sense of drama to the program, a sense that the
competition really did matter. i just didn't think it was right that he
seemed to be treated like the Just a Minute Prima Donna. there's no denying
Kenneth's talent, I've listened to plenty of episodes of Round the Horne to
know he is exceptionally gifted, I've seen plenty of clips of talk show
segments to know he is very intelligent. but to cater to his vanity and his
ego in such a manner seems to go against what Just a Minute is all about, in
that it is a team effort, so to allow Kenneth to hog the spotlight or the
limelight all the time just didn't seem appropriate in my view.

 
<<<<   4721   >>>>

Topic: Re: The Carte Blanche of Kenneth Williams

Message 2 / 3
Steve KenrickOct 29, 2010
 

 

 
<<<<   4722   >>>>

Topic: Re: The Carte Blanche of Kenneth Williams

Message 3 / 3
Robert TorresOct 29, 2010
 

 
Excellent points.

i do enjoy the show very much, although sometimes its difficult to ascertain the line that separates what is meant to be funny or amusing, and what might be perceived as just being blatantly abusive and downright mean spirited.




Its a great show and no doubt Kenneth`s time on the program is quite memorable before the show became a stand up comic free for all.

i guess im just kinda miffed that, at the time, so many other talented guests would come onto the program and never get a word in because of not only Kenneth, but also Clement and Derek. Or there seemed to be some favortism shown towards Kenneth at the expense of everyone else. That`s just me though.

On Fri Oct 29th, 2010 10:46 AM EDT Clitheroe Kid wrote:

>I feel I have to put in my 2 cents worth here, for what it's worth...
>
>Kenneth was a consumate professional, not the egocentric maniac you
>describe. What you haven't allowed for is that the show was controlled by
>the Producer, not by Kenneth. And if you stop to think about it for a
>moment, you'll realise that whatever Kenneth might do or say in the studio
>would never make it onto the broadcast tape if the Producer didn't want it
>there.
>
>In point of fact, as I've mentioned before - and others have too - Kenneth
>had an arrangement with the Producer, whereby if the latter felt that the
>show was too flat he would give Kenneth a sign to raise the ante, and
>Kenneth would go into one of his rants. The Producer would then give Kenneth
>another sign, and he would shut up again.
>
>It was a measure of Kenneth's ability, that he could raise the show whenever
>it needed it, even if this production trick did have the effect of making
>him look a bit schizophrenic. He would be improvising off-the-cuff, so he
>might well attack Peter Jones in one edition, only to praise him the
>following week.
>
>You should realise, too, that this is comedy. The panellists were free to
>say anything that would get a laugh; being dull was the only way of giving
>offence. Kenneth didn't have to believe in what he was saying, and it didn't
>have to be true. It was all done in the cause of achieving a comic effect.
>
>It wouldn't be fair to expect consistency. The panel were trying to
>entertain. It wasn't a court of law, and their remarks weren't given under
>oath. Paul Merton's flights of surreal fantasy in later years were plainly
>only flights of fancy. Kenneth's were not so obviously made up. But you're
>mistaking Kenneth as being serious, when he was merely trying to be funny.
>
>He knew how to get the audience going, and how to work them up to fever
>pitch, and no one else on the panel could do that - then or now. And Kenneth
>could make *any* subject funny...
>
>Clitheroe Kid
>
>Stephen Poppitt & Sandra Skuse
>Jimmy Clitheroe: The Kid Himself
>http://www.JimmyClitheroe.co.uk
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bobby" <bobbyshaddoe3004@...>
>To: <just-a-minute@...>
>Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:54 AM
>Subject: [just-a-minute] The Carte Blanche of Kenneth Williams
>
>
>> This is something that no doubt has fandom divided regarding the
>appreciation of Kenneth Williams. Kenneth had a style of playing the game
>that often played on his strengths as a comedic performer. No one on the
>show was quite like Kenneth. But often his style tended to consist on
>putting on funny voices or stretching words out, and adding several
>syllables into one syllable words. In addition, he just seemed to be given
>free reign to act like a immature brat, often screaming and bullying his
>fellow panelists (usually the ladies), and then turns around and does the
>exact opposite, often denying that he would ever stoop to such behavior mere
>moments after finishing one of his disgraceful tirades. On top of that, he
>would often decry and condemn other panelists for trying to do what he does
>on a regular basis, claiming that he never does the very thing he's
>challenging them on. And it reached an apex largely during the 70s but
>moreso in the 80s when Ian Messiter, Nicholas Parsons, and even the
>producers of the show began to cater to this outrageous behavior, or even
>feed his overinflated ego.
>>
>> something else that I tended to notice was a change of opinion regarding
>his attitude towards Peter Jones that shifted from the early 70's to the
>1980's. in the 70's it often seemed like Kenneth and Peter were rivals,
>largely because Peter was the first to openly challenge Kenneth's mannerisms
>and his outrageous behavior. this was of course fairly early in Peter
>Jones' involvement on the program, and there always seemed to be a sense of
>one upmanship between them, whenever Peter tried to start speaking on
>something Kenneth would be down on him like a ton of bricks, and Peter would
>try to get his own back (sometimes not always succeeding). but I recall one
>episode when Peter had managed to get into the lead for the first time since
>coming onto the program, and he commented that Kenneth seemed to be siding
>with Clement against him just because he happened to be in the lead for the
>first time in 8 weeks. and then two subjects later, Kenneth managed to take
>the lead and at the end of the round, Kenneth pretty much let Peter have it
>saying 'So there you are Peter Jones!' even though, as Nicholas pointed
>out, he had been in direct competition with Clement Freud in the previous
>round, and Kenneth replied 'because he was so smug when he was four in the
>lead, so smug. just sitting there like a cat with the cream'. Kenneth was
>also one to always jump on Peter and tell him to shut up if he's got nothing
>to say on a subject.
>>
>> But in the 80's, Kenneth seemed more complimentary towards Peter. one
>occasion when Peter said he wished he could speak more fluently and
>elegantly, Kenneth challenged on deviation, saying that Peter Jones already
>speaks quite fluently and elegantly. And goes on to heap praise upon praise
>on him, and this actually manages to get Kenneth the subject.
>>
>> still, he did bring a sense of drama to the program, a sense that the
>competition really did matter. i just didn't think it was right that he
>seemed to be treated like the Just a Minute Prima Donna. there's no denying
>Kenneth's talent, I've listened to plenty of episodes of Round the Horne to
>know he is exceptionally gifted, I've seen plenty of clips of talk show
>segments to know he is very intelligent. but to cater to his vanity and his
>ego in such a manner seems to go against what Just a Minute is all about, in
>that it is a team effort, so to allow Kenneth to hog the spotlight or the
>limelight all the time just didn't seem appropriate in my view.
>