| Thank you once again for the JAM. Regarding the synchronisation, consider if this is a function of the computer and the media players that are running at the same time. I would be surprised if the programmes were now broadcast from tape but a digital source. The variance in the playback speed is more likely to be the earlier recording/play-back where the speed lock of the capstan motor was 'hunting' around the correct speed lock (thermal effect of the control circuit would be my guess) This would explain the synchronous start, speeding up, then slow down to achieve synchronisation again. Probably recorded on either a BTR/2s or (at the time a new) B62 tape machine. It would be possible to correct this variation by digitally fixing the playback speed by synchronisation with the mains 50Hz hum that will present on the tape. Many old tape machines here: http://www.btinternet.com/~roger.beckwith/bh/tapes/btr2.htm ...or the B62 like this one: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$%28KGrHqQOKnEE1P2-!LF!BNdtyNh%28EQ~~_12.JPG |
This was originally meant to see if there were editing differences between the two versions, but one thing I'm noticing is that while they started in perfect synchronisation, they rapidly drifted out of sync: the old recording is definitely faster than the new recording. Within 30 seconds it was playing about half a second in advance. Later they synchronised for a moment, and then drifted out of sync again. They continue to drift to and fro throughout the episode. Could this be a result of old tapes stretching?
I've noticed this too, in a lot of old recordings. Not by comparison but purely by ear, with Nick sounding like Mickey mouse (or Clement sound like a normal being...)
On some recordings it's been so bad that I've manually adjust the speed to something that *sounds* more right (just by ear) and saved that as a new version.
But I also believe there's been the the case with the old recordings being noteably slower. I never knew of these issues Badger Dance mentions, so I thought it was just a case of different playback speed on the cassette player that did the recording and later played back to computer, either due to technical differences or state of battery or something like that.
And of course, these shows are usually noteably shorter or longer than they "should" be, that's a pretty good indicator of something being wrong with the playback speed too.
From: Espen Krømke <espen.kromke@...>
To: just-a-minute@...
Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2011, 7:03
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] JAM-1969-11-17@44=Receiving_Compliments-v2
Den 05. des. 2011 22:30, skrev nylon net:This was originally meant to see if there were editing differences between the two versions, but one thing I'm noticing is that while they started in perfect synchronisation, they rapidly drifted out of sync: the old recording is definitely faster than the new recording. Within 30 seconds it was playing about half a second in advance. Later they synchronised for a moment, and then drifted out of sync again. They continue to drift to and fro throughout the episode. Could this be a result of old tapes stretching?
I've noticed this too, in a lot of old recordings. Not by comparison but purely by ear, with Nick sounding like Mickey mouse (or Clement sound like a normal being...)
On some recordings it's been so bad that I've manually adjust the speed to something that *sounds* more right (just by ear) and saved that as a new version.
But I also believe there's been the the case with the old recordings being noteably slower. I never knew of these issues Badger Dance mentions, so I thought it was just a case of different playback speed on the cassette player that did the recording and later played back to computer, either due to technical differences or state of battery or something like that.
And of course, these shows are usually noteably shorter or longer than they "should" be, that's a pretty good indicator of something being wrong with the playback speed too.
| From the original description of the 'fault' I think the speed variance follows a triangle waveform. http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/images/triangle.gif With speed on the Y-axis rather than voltage/current. (Too fast/too slow) With a variable speed playback feature on a media player, you could not vary the speed to match a particular wave function but set it at so many percent faster or slower than normal. If there was a variable variance in the original recording speed you could not manually correct for this by hand with a variable speed playback control. It could only be done reliably digitally. During the 1970s the BBC started using the Studer A80 tape machine of which the later models carried a vary-speed feature, but this was only enabled on playback as I recall, and it only offered a manually set percentage speed change. Certainly during the 1970s-90s both the Radio Theatre (Or 'Concert Hall' as it was then called) and the Paris Theatre on Lower Regent Street were equipped with the older Studer B67 tape machines, as I recall. Just in case it is not obvious I used to be an engineer at the BBC during this time. |
| Thank you once again for the JAM. Regarding the synchronisation, consider if this is a function of the computer and the media players that are running at the same time. I would be surprised if the programmes were now broadcast from tape but a digital source. The variance in the playback speed is more likely to be the earlier recording/play-back where the speed lock of the capstan motor was 'hunting' around the correct speed lock (thermal effect of the control circuit would be my guess) This would explain the synchronous start, speeding up, then slow down to achieve synchronisation again. Probably recorded on either a BTR/2s or (at the time a new) B62 tape machine. It would be possible to correct this variation by digitally fixing the playback speed by synchronisation with the mains 50Hz hum that will present on the tape. Many old tape machines here: http://www.btinternet.com/~roger.beckwith/bh/tapes/btr2.htm ...or the B62 like this one: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$%28KGrHqQOKnEE1P2-!LF!BNdtyNh%28EQ~~_12.JPG |
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