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<<<<   7017   >>>>

Topic: Missing JAMs

Message 1 / 17
Clitheroe KidApr 27, 2012
 
 
Hi Dean,
 
Sorry for the delay in replying.
 
BBC Worldwide are not set up to handle listener enquiries, so there is no obvious point of contact. And they run at least part of their operation in Bristol, not London, so an enquiry that lands on some BBC desk in London will tend not to reach Worldwide.
 
Also, they do not seem to have a computerised list of their holdings, in the way that Sound Archives does for its holdings. Most ex-BBC Enterprises discs which Worldwide has inherited are listed in the BBC Enterprises 'Variety Catalogue', a printed catalogue, supplied to overseas stations in the old days, from which they could order a batch of shows. Tends to say '2 dozen episodes, Clitheroe Kid', rather than necessarily listing them individually.
 
My contacts were at Sound Archives, and no one there ever understood why it was Corporation policy not to merge the records of Sound Archives and Enterprises; and Sound Archives had no idea what Enterprises/Worldwide were holding. The holdings being hundreds of miles away in Bristol meant no one in London could even see the items, physically.
 
Transcription Services LPs do not say on the label what the original broadcast date is. The label will say something like 'Just A Minute - 2 Shows' and then there will be a number that represents the index number of this LP in the Variety catalogue.
 
No way could you look at the item and tell which episodes are on it. You would have to play it, and then look at a fan-derived index, because BBC do not catalogue the series by First Subject; and although Sound Archives might be able to research back through paper records of the Transcription dept to identify the original source, Worldwide do not have those resources, certainly not in Bristol. So, in general, even Worldwide do NOT know which episodes they are storing.
 
BBC will not be interested in our opinion that there are 11 missing - lost - shows.
 
BBC will take the view that any shows held outside the BBC are 'lost', and that ABC accordingly hold 200+ lost shows. BBC will not be able to budget to digitally restore such a huge number of recordings. That would only be feasible with episodes from a series that sells well on CD, i.e. if the project was self-financing.
 
I can't see an obvious next move. Basically, no one except BBC Worldwide themselves know what they're holding. And in most cases, for the reasons explained, even Worldwide don't know what they're holding! They will likely know only that they hold, say, 3 dozen LPs from series such-and-such.
 
If you would like to make an enquiry, I suggest you do not direct it to BBC, but in the first instance contact instead one of the fan researchers who have current contacts at useful points inside the BBC. I suggest the most likely places you might try are http://wipednews.com or http://www.missing-episodes.com (or email to mark@... ), or http://www.wiped.wordpress.com

Best wishes,
Stephen
 
Stephen Poppitt
Jimmy Clitheroe - The Kid Himself
http://www.JimmyClitheroe.co.uk
 
To: just-a-minute@...
From: dbedford@...
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:03:39 +1200
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs

hi again
 
we are really talking only about these 11 “missing” shows. We are not talking about 200 shows.
 
We can be absolutely sure the ABC doesn’t have them, as in the past 12 years they have run through all their early shows three, maybe four times and have never played these. They have responded to people asking about these missing shows saying they are playing all the shows they have. I think there is no point at all making any requests of them.
 
Is there any point, in your opinion, in contacting BBC Worldwide? Or does the last para below mean you think there isn’t? I think at least some of the group would be happy just to know if they do still exist.
  
 
 
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs
 
 
Contacting sound archives is a waste of time, I too tried that already and was simply ignored. my contacts at radio 4 extra have investigated in any case, so I already know that s.a. only hold 3 editions of jam from before 1980.
If bbc have any recordings, it will be BBC Worldwide who have them, held as 25 min LP recordings. But if Worldwide have them, they are not 'lost'. If not, they stil are NOT lost, because ABC have them.
So we are really talking about money: the cost of digital conversion and' restoration, but bbc are facing budget cuts. ironically, if ABC had only one or 2 editions it might be affordable, but the cost per LP multiplied by 200 is not.



 
<<<<   7019   >>>>

Topic: Re: Missing JAMs

Message 2 / 17
badger danceApr 28, 2012
 
 
Well written Stephen,

This echoes my experiences of the BBC and this the reason that it falls to the fan base to copy, catalogue and hold the programme archives via file sharing and P2P. The broadcasters can not be trusted to maintain and keep heritage content.  


 
<<<<   7020   >>>>

Topic: Re: Missing JAMs

Message 3 / 17
Dave BApr 29, 2012
 
 
Thank you all for the recent TV episodes. I wonder if my recent email asking what the BBC thought of our file sharing might be connected with removals from Mediafire. I trust not. But you never know!

I just thought I would go through my surviving tape collection from 1978-1982, in case I have better tapes than may exist. Well I have a list of what I have on tape, but it will be impossible for me to hear the tapes as I have no player worth listening to. What I will do is check my MP3 collection (thank you all) from that period and see if there is anything hard to hear and if that coincides with tape in my possession I will offer it up. I had not realised until this recent topic that the BBC no longer APPEARED to retain pre 1980 shows (well whatvere we have concluded recently).

Anyway - back to 1978 for me - lucky me too.

But here is a list of what I have. Red being what I have, and blue being what I know I have but is either part missing or on a damaged tape (the one we recovered Getting Wound Up from). Oh, this is Dean's list (thanks).

Dave

250/12/5 21 March 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and June Whitfield, what makes me burst with pride.
251/12/6 28 March 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, making a good start.
252/12/7 4 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, salesmen.
253/12/8 11 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Sheila Hancock and Bernard Cribbins, customs.
254/12/9 18 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Patrick Moore, how to become celebrated.
255/12/10 25 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tommy Trinder, why parrots don't sneeze.
256/12/11 2 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Janet Brown, moose. LOST
257/12/12 9 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and June Whitfield, attack.
258/12/13 16 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, making up.
259/12/14 23 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, getting wound up.
260/13/1 23 January 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Aimi Macdonald and Patrick Moore, a grand opening. LOST
261/13/2 30 January 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, getting started. LOST
262/13/3 6 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Joan Bakewell, my ideal. LOST
263/13/4 13 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, excitement. LOST
264/13/5 20 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ray Alan, simplicity. LOST
265/13/6 27 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Tim Brooke-Taylor and Kenneth Robinson, why I should be knighted.
266/13/7 6 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Took and Peter Cook, my other self.
267/13/8 13 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Aimi Macdonald and Patrick Moore, foolishness.
268/13/9 20 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, customs.
269/13/10 27 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Joan Bakewell, improvisation.
270/13/11 8 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Kenneth Robinson and Miriam Margolyes, hotch potch.
271/13/12 15 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ray Alan, if I were not a thespian.
272/13/13 22 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, parbuckles.
273/13/14 29 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Took and Peter Cook, the Loch Ness monster.
274/14/1 11 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Peter Cook, how to get cracking.
275/14/2 18 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Lorraine Chase, taking a diabolical liberty.
276/14/3 25 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Lance Percival, exhibitionism.
277/14/4 1 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Patrick Moore, overdoing it.
278/14/5 8 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, looking ahead.
279/14/6 15 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, rolls.
280/14/7 22 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Rob Buckman, springing into action.
281/14/8 29 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Aimi Macdonald, Aimi Macdonald.
282/14/9 5 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Kenny Everett, the Mexican hat dance.
283/14/10 12 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, bugling.
284/14/11 19 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Barry Cryer, my resolution for this programme. LOST
285/14/12 26 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and John Junkin, getting a good start. LOST
286/14/13 4 March 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Bob Monkhouse, getting sent. LOST
287/14/14 11 March 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, my accolade. LOST
288/15/1 7 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, being forceful. LOST
289/15/2 14 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Cryer and Lance Percival, my following.
290/15/3 21 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Barry Took and Tim Brooke-Taylor, enough money. LOST
291/15/4 28 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones, having women in the show. LOST
292/15/5 4 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and John Junkin, parking meters.
293/15/6 11 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, fruit.
294/15/7 18 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, the best game.
295/15/8 25 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, bliss.
296/15/9 2 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Clement Freud, Kenneth Williams, Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden, getting ice cubes out of the tray.
297/15/10 9 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Barry Took and Tim Brooke-Taylor, striving for perfection.
298/15/11 16 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Aimi Macdonald, Irish humour.
299/15/12 23 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and John Junkin, getting a shock.
300/15/13 30 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, disreputable people.
302/16/1 23 January 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, the best way to lie.
303/16/2 30 January 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Sheila Hancock and Michael Wood, what amazes me.
304/16/3 6 February 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ian Messiter, the first time I appeared

From: badger dance <badger_dance@...>
To: just-a-minute@...
Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 2:13 AM
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs

 
Well written Stephen,

This echoes my experiences of the BBC and this the reason that it falls to the fan base to copy, catalogue and hold the programme archives via file sharing and P2P. The broadcasters can not be trusted to maintain and keep heritage content.  




 
<<<<   7022   >>>>

Topic: Re: Missing JAMs

Message 4 / 17
DeanApr 30, 2012
 
 
badger, I think Dave was referring to his emails to this group, not to the BBC.
 
But even if he has written to the BBC, we don’t name-call here. The bulk of this email conveys very useful information, it didn’t need the personal stuff.
 
Anyone who doesn’t follow my one rule of “be nice”, will be out. I hope I don’t have to show I mean it.
 
cheers, Dean
 
 
 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs
 
 

thought of our file sharing might be connected with removals from Mediafire. I trust not. But you never know! "

Are you serious?

You wrote to the copyright holder asking for their opinion of file sharing and blatant breach of the relevant laws, at best you are naive and worst stupid.

What do you think their answer might be? Honestly!

"Oh!  that's OK please feel free to distribute our copyrighted programme content around the world breaking various local and international laws and those of the file sharing sites who's Terms and conditions clearly state that you are not allowed to host content for which you do not hold copyright for."

In case you think that Australian law excludes Just A Minute I suggest you read your local law on this matter: http://www.ag.gov.au/Copyright/Pages/default.aspx  I'm sure you will be aware of the current AFL/Optus copyright case, so copyright theft is high profile and anyone that is indulging such acts will want to "keep quiet about it".

The issue you might counter with is to suggest we are "time shifting" the broadcasts but this is not the case as we are sharing beyond the national/regional limits of the original broadcast and "media shifting" where the copyright material is transposed to MP3 format for onward transmission. Both points specifically forbidden under the T&Cs of the various sources from which "copies" are taken.

The BBC as the copyright holder will be tied to their contractual agreements with the programme performers who would (probably) otherwise receive payment from future sales of the programme content; which a court case would argue that we are depriving them of.

If this Yahoo Group disappears overnight - it's a fair bet that it will be as a result of a "cease and desist" notice to the cappers and this Yahoo Group owner, who probably do not wish the floodlight of litigation to focus on them because a fool waved a flag at the BBC.

http://info.yahoo.com/copyright/us/details.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

Read the two links above to understand exactly what you have put at risk not only to the group but the kind people that infringe copyright for your pleasure.


I take it back; you are not a naive fool you are, with respect, a moron.
> "I wonder if my recent email asking what the BBC


 
<<<<   7023   >>>>

Topic: Missing JAMs

Message 5 / 17
Clitheroe KidApr 30, 2012
 
 
Dave,
 
Please could you clarify - are your tapes reel-to-reel tapes from a tape recorder, or are they ordinary cassette tapes? 
 
The BBC continually monitor file sharing sites, and complain about BBC recordings found there, if they are still within copyright. All BBC radio and tv shows which first aired less than 50 years ago - i.e. after 1 Jan 1962 - still retain BBC copyright under the 1956 Copyright Act.

BBC Sound Archives hold a vast number of pre-1980 recordings, thousands of items; but they are mostly now transfered to digital storeage. The original LPs and magnetic tapes are mostly placed in the possession of The British Library, once they've been transfered to digital storeage - a process that involves restoring each item to remove hiss and other audible defects.
 
I didn't mean to imply there is no pre-1980 radio archive at the BBC. For many shows, there is. But it does not mean the Just A Minute shows are not held elsewhere inside BBC, on their original tape or vinyl medium. BBC Worldwide may still hold hundreds of unindexed, unsorted episodes of Just A Minute as LP recordings. It would be very difficult to identify which episodes, but I would not be surprised to learn that Worldwide are possessed of all the BBC's holdings, instead of Sound Archives, of this and many other shows.
 
BBC Enterprises were responsible for all overseas sales of all tv and radio shows in the past, and the master recordings for those shows often ended up in an Enterprises storeage facility by default, instead of being handed to Sound Archives. This was especially prone to happen where a series was popular with overseas stations, and so was actively being sold on contract to foreign broadcasters, as clearly occured with Just A Minute, which was popular in Australia and elsewhere.
 
Enterprises was responsible for delivering the LPs to ABC for all the shows which ABC currently air in their 5am slot, 7 days a week. Worldwide has probably inherited a huge stock of episodes for those shows, from the now-defunct BBC Enterprises. But those recordings will not be catalogued/indexed in any meaningful way. They will be unsorted, unindexed, most likely.
 
May I beat you all to the punch, and announce that today ABC aired the 'Romulus and Remus' episode - the final edition of series 4 - for the third straight week. Anyone want to tell them this?
 
 
To: just-a-minute@...
From: pondydave@...
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:30:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs



Thank you all for the recent TV episodes. I wonder if my recent email asking what the BBC thought of our file sharing might be connected with removals from Mediafire. I trust not. But you never know!

I just thought I would go through my surviving tape collection from 1978-1982, in case I have better tapes than may exist. Well I have a list of what I have on tape, but it will be impossible for me to hear the tapes as I have no player worth listening to. What I will do is check my MP3 collection (thank you all) from that period and see if there is anything hard to hear and if that coincides with tape in my possession I will offer it up. I had not realised until this recent topic that the BBC no longer APPEARED to retain pre 1980 shows (well whatvere we have concluded recently).

Anyway - back to 1978 for me - lucky me too.

But here is a list of what I have. Red being what I have, and blue being what I know I have but is either part missing or on a damaged tape (the one we recovered Getting Wound Up from). Oh, this is Dean's list (thanks).

Dave

250/12/5 21 March 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and June Whitfield, what makes me burst with pride.
251/12/6 28 March 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, making a good start.
252/12/7 4 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, salesmen.
253/12/8 11 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Sheila Hancock and Bernard Cribbins, customs.
254/12/9 18 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Patrick Moore, how to become celebrated.
255/12/10 25 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tommy Trinder, why parrots don't sneeze.
256/12/11 2 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Janet Brown, moose. LOST
257/12/12 9 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and June Whitfield, attack.
258/12/13 16 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, making up.
259/12/14 23 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, getting wound up.
260/13/1 23 January 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Aimi Macdonald and Patrick Moore, a grand opening. LOST
261/13/2 30 January 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, getting started. LOST
262/13/3 6 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Joan Bakewell, my ideal. LOST
263/13/4 13 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, excitement. LOST
264/13/5 20 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ray Alan, simplicity. LOST
265/13/6 27 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Tim Brooke-Taylor and Kenneth Robinson, why I should be knighted.
266/13/7 6 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Took and Peter Cook, my other self.
267/13/8 13 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Aimi Macdonald and Patrick Moore, foolishness.
268/13/9 20 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, customs.
269/13/10 27 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Joan Bakewell, improvisation.
270/13/11 8 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Kenneth Robinson and Miriam Margolyes, hotch potch.
271/13/12 15 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ray Alan, if I were not a thespian.
272/13/13 22 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, parbuckles.
273/13/14 29 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Took and Peter Cook, the Loch Ness monster.
274/14/1 11 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Peter Cook, how to get cracking.
275/14/2 18 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Lorraine Chase, taking a diabolical liberty.
276/14/3 25 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Lance Percival, exhibitionism.
277/14/4 1 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Patrick Moore, overdoing it.
278/14/5 8 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, looking ahead.
279/14/6 15 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, rolls.
280/14/7 22 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Rob Buckman, springing into action.
281/14/8 29 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Aimi Macdonald, Aimi Macdonald.
282/14/9 5 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Kenny Everett, the Mexican hat dance.
283/14/10 12 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, bugling.
284/14/11 19 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Barry Cryer, my resolution for this programme. LOST
285/14/12 26 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and John Junkin, getting a good start. LOST
286/14/13 4 March 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Bob Monkhouse, getting sent. LOST
287/14/14 11 March 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, my accolade. LOST
288/15/1 7 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, being forceful. LOST
289/15/2 14 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Cryer and Lance Percival, my following.
290/15/3 21 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Barry Took and Tim Brooke-Taylor, enough money. LOST
291/15/4 28 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones, having women in the show. LOST
292/15/5 4 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and John Junkin, parking meters.
293/15/6 11 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, fruit.
294/15/7 18 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, the best game.
295/15/8 25 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, bliss.
296/15/9 2 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Clement Freud, Kenneth Williams, Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden, getting ice cubes out of the tray.
297/15/10 9 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Barry Took and Tim Brooke-Taylor, striving for perfection.
298/15/11 16 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Aimi Macdonald, Irish humour.
299/15/12 23 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and John Junkin, getting a shock.
300/15/13 30 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, disreputable people.
302/16/1 23 January 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, the best way to lie.
303/16/2 30 January 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Sheila Hancock and Michael Wood, what amazes me.
304/16/3 6 February 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ian Messiter, the first time I appeared

From: badger dance <badger_dance@...>
To: just-a-minute@...
Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 2:13 AM
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs

 
Well written Stephen,

This echoes my experiences of the BBC and this the reason that it falls to the fan base to copy, catalogue and hold the programme archives via file sharing and P2P. The broadcasters can not be trusted to maintain and keep heritage content.  






 
<<<<   7026   >>>>

Topic: Missing JAMs

Message 6 / 17
Clitheroe KidApr 30, 2012
 
 
 
Under UK law, broadcast copyright exists in a radio show under either the Copyright Act 1956 or the Act of 1988, depending on whether the broadcast in question was first aired before or after 1988.
 
In the 1956 Act, there is only a prohibition on commercial use of a recording of a show, and only for 50 years. The Act does NOT prohibit non-commercial use.
 
There is a campaign under way to try to get the file sharing sites to recognise that file shaing of a BBC show that was first broadcast before 1963 is not unlawdful, and that even if the episode aired after 1963 sharing it is still NOT banned by the Act unless money is paid - something which never happens in the context of file-sharing.
 
You need to understand that, whatever the law might be in Australia, this is a BBC show, and the BBC is limited by the laws of England, not those of Australia. It can, under UK law, prevent commercial use of its shows, but not their non-commercial use.
 
Beware of believing all the stuff on the internet about copyright law. Most of it turns out to relate to American copyright law. Very little of it applies in the UK.
 

 
To: just-a-minute@...
From: dbedford@...
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:03:35 +1200
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs



badger, I think Dave was referring to his emails to this group, not to the BBC.
 
But even if he has written to the BBC, we don’t name-call here. The bulk of this email conveys very useful information, it didn’t need the personal stuff.
 
Anyone who doesn’t follow my one rule of “be nice”, will be out. I hope I don’t have to show I mean it.
 
cheers, Dean
 
 
 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs
 
 
Are you serious?

You wrote to the copyright holder asking for their opinion of file sharing and blatant breach of the relevant laws, at best you are naive and worst stupid.

What do you think their answer might be? Honestly!

"Oh!  that's OK please feel free to distribute our copyrighted programme content around the world breaking various local and international laws and those of the file sharing sites who's Terms and conditions clearly state that you are not allowed to host content for which you do not hold copyright for."

In case you think that Australian law excludes Just A Minute I suggest you read your local law on this matter: http://www.ag.gov.au/Copyright/Pages/default.aspx  I'm sure you will be aware of the current AFL/Optus copyright case, so copyright theft is high profile and anyone that is indulging such acts will want to "keep quiet about it".

The issue you might counter with is to suggest we are "time shifting" the broadcasts but this is not the case as we are sharing beyond the national/regional limits of the original broadcast and "media shifting" where the copyright material is transposed to MP3 format for onward transmission. Both points specifically forbidden under the T&Cs of the various sources from which "copies" are taken.

The BBC as the copyright holder will be tied to their contractual agreements with the programme performers who would (probably) otherwise receive payment from future sales of the programme content; which a court case would argue that we are depriving them of.

If this Yahoo Group disappears overnight - it's a fair bet that it will be as a result of a "cease and desist" notice to the cappers and this Yahoo Group owner, who probably do not wish the floodlight of litigation to focus on them because a fool waved a flag at the BBC.

http://info.yahoo.com/copyright/us/details.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

Read the two links above to understand exactly what you have put at risk not only to the group but the kind people that infringe copyright for your pleasure.


I take it back; you are not a naive fool you are, with respect, a moron.
> "I wonder if my recent email asking what the BBC thought of our file sharing might be connected with removals from Mediafire. I trust not. But you never know! "





 
<<<<   7028   >>>>

Topic: Re: Missing JAMs

Message 7 / 17
nylon netApr 30, 2012
 
 

"May I beat you all to the punch, and announce that today ABC aired the 'Romulus and Remus' episode - the final edition of series 4 - for the third straight week. Anyone want to tell them this?"

I've written to them about this, like I did last week!
 
Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: clitheroekid@...
Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:30:48 +0000
To: just-a-minute@...
Subject: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs

 

Dave,
 
Please could you clarify - are your tapes reel-to-reel tapes from a tape recorder, or are they ordinary cassette tapes? 
 
The BBC continually monitor file sharing sites, and complain about BBC recordings found there, if they are still within copyright. All BBC radio and tv shows which first aired less than 50 years ago - i.e. after 1 Jan 1962 - still retain BBC copyright under the 1956 Copyright Act.

BBC Sound Archives hold a vast number of pre-1980 recordings, thousands of items; but they are mostly now transfered to digital storeage. The original LPs and magnetic tapes are mostly placed in the possession of The British Library, once they've been transfered to digital storeage - a process that involves restoring each item to remove hiss and other audible defects.
 
I didn't mean to imply there is no pre-1980 radio archive at the BBC. For many shows, there is. But it does not mean the Just A Minute shows are not held elsewhere inside BBC, on their original tape or vinyl medium. BBC Worldwide may still hold hundreds of unindexed, unsorted episodes of Just A Minute as LP recordings. It would be very difficult to identify which episodes, but I would not be surprised to learn that Worldwide are possessed of all the BBC's holdings, instead of Sound Archives, of this and many other shows.
 
BBC Enterprises were responsible for all overseas sales of all tv and radio shows in the past, and the master recordings for those shows often ended up in an Enterprises storeage facility by default, instead of being handed to Sound Archives. This was especially prone to happen where a series was popular with overseas stations, and so was actively being sold on contract to foreign broadcasters, as clearly occured with Just A Minute, which was popular in Australia and elsewhere.
 
Enterprises was responsible for delivering the LPs to ABC for all the shows which ABC currently air in their 5am slot, 7 days a week. Worldwide has probably inherited a huge stock of episodes for those shows, from the now-defunct BBC Enterprises. But those recordings will not be catalogued/indexed in any meaningful way. They will be unsorted, unindexed, most likely.
 
May I beat you all to the punch, and announce that today ABC aired the 'Romulus and Remus' episode - the final edition of series 4 - for the third straight week. Anyone want to tell them this?
 
 
To: just-a-minute@...
From: pondydave@...
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:30:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs



Thank you all for the recent TV episodes. I wonder if my recent email asking what the BBC thought of our file sharing might be connected with removals from Mediafire. I trust not. But you never know!

I just thought I would go through my surviving tape collection from 1978-1982, in case I have better tapes than may exist. Well I have a list of what I have on tape, but it will be impossible for me to hear the tapes as I have no player worth listening to. What I will do is check my MP3 collection (thank you all) from that period and see if there is anything hard to hear and if that coincides with tape in my possession I will offer it up. I had not realised until this recent topic that the BBC no longer APPEARED to retain pre 1980 shows (well whatvere we have concluded recently).

Anyway - back to 1978 for me - lucky me too.

But here is a list of what I have. Red being what I have, and blue being what I know I have but is either part missing or on a damaged tape (the one we recovered Getting Wound Up from). Oh, this is Dean's list (thanks).

Dave

250/12/5 21 March 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and June Whitfield, what makes me burst with pride.
251/12/6 28 March 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, making a good start.
252/12/7 4 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, salesmen.
253/12/8 11 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Sheila Hancock and Bernard Cribbins, customs.
254/12/9 18 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Patrick Moore, how to become celebrated.
255/12/10 25 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tommy Trinder, why parrots don't sneeze.
256/12/11 2 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Janet Brown, moose. LOST
257/12/12 9 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and June Whitfield, attack.
258/12/13 16 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, making up.
259/12/14 23 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, getting wound up.
260/13/1 23 January 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Aimi Macdonald and Patrick Moore, a grand opening. LOST
261/13/2 30 January 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, getting started. LOST
262/13/3 6 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Joan Bakewell, my ideal. LOST
263/13/4 13 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, excitement. LOST
264/13/5 20 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ray Alan, simplicity. LOST
265/13/6 27 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Tim Brooke-Taylor and Kenneth Robinson, why I should be knighted.
266/13/7 6 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Took and Peter Cook, my other self.
267/13/8 13 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Aimi Macdonald and Patrick Moore, foolishness.
268/13/9 20 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, customs.
269/13/10 27 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Joan Bakewell, improvisation.
270/13/11 8 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Kenneth Robinson and Miriam Margolyes, hotch potch.
271/13/12 15 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ray Alan, if I were not a thespian.
272/13/13 22 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, parbuckles.
273/13/14 29 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Took and Peter Cook, the Loch Ness monster.
274/14/1 11 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Peter Cook, how to get cracking.
275/14/2 18 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Lorraine Chase, taking a diabolical liberty.
276/14/3 25 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Lance Percival, exhibitionism.
277/14/4 1 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Patrick Moore, overdoing it.
278/14/5 8 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, looking ahead.
279/14/6 15 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, rolls.
280/14/7 22 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Rob Buckman, springing into action.
281/14/8 29 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Aimi Macdonald, Aimi Macdonald.
282/14/9 5 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Kenny Everett, the Mexican hat dance.
283/14/10 12 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, bugling.
284/14/11 19 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Barry Cryer, my resolution for this programme. LOST
285/14/12 26 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and John Junkin, getting a good start. LOST
286/14/13 4 March 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Bob Monkhouse, getting sent. LOST
287/14/14 11 March 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, my accolade. LOST
288/15/1 7 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, being forceful. LOST
289/15/2 14 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Cryer and Lance Percival, my following.
290/15/3 21 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Barry Took and Tim Brooke-Taylor, enough money. LOST
291/15/4 28 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones, having women in the show. LOST
292/15/5 4 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and John Junkin, parking meters.
293/15/6 11 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, fruit.
294/15/7 18 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, the best game.
295/15/8 25 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, bliss.
296/15/9 2 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Clement Freud, Kenneth Williams, Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden, getting ice cubes out of the tray.
297/15/10 9 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Barry Took and Tim Brooke-Taylor, striving for perfection.
298/15/11 16 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Aimi Macdonald, Irish humour.
299/15/12 23 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and John Junkin, getting a shock.
300/15/13 30 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, disreputable people.
302/16/1 23 January 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, the best way to lie.
303/16/2 30 January 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Sheila Hancock and Michael Wood, what amazes me.
304/16/3 6 February 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ian Messiter, the first time I appeared

From: badger dance <badger_dance@...>
To: just-a-minute@...
Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 2:13 AM
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs

 
Well written Stephen,

This echoes my experiences of the BBC and this the reason that it falls to the fan base to copy, catalogue and hold the programme archives via file sharing and P2P. The broadcasters can not be trusted to maintain and keep heritage content.  
Free Online Photosharing - Share your photos online with your friends and family!
Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!

 
<<<<   7033   >>>>

Topic: Re: Missing JAMs

Message 8 / 17
Dave BMay 1, 2012
 
 
I emailed the yahoo group on the subject...and you should be thrown out of this group for being so offensive.



From: badger dance <badger_dance@...>
To: just-a-minute@...
Sent: Monday, 30 April 2012 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs

 
> "I wonder if my recent email asking what the BBC thought of our
file sharing might be connected with removals from Mediafire. I trust not. But you never know! "

Are you serious?

You wrote to the copyright holder asking for their opinion of file sharing and blatant breach of the relevant laws, at best you are naive and worst stupid.

What do you think their answer might be? Honestly!

"Oh!  that's OK please feel free to distribute our copyrighted programme content around the world breaking various local and international laws and those of the file sharing sites who's Terms and conditions clearly state that you are not allowed to host content for which you do not hold copyright for."

In case you think that Australian law excludes Just A Minute I suggest you read your local law on this matter: http://www.ag.gov.au/Copyright/Pages/default.aspx  I'm sure you will be aware of the current AFL/Optus copyright case, so copyright theft is high profile and anyone that is indulging such acts will want to "keep quiet about it".

The issue you might counter with is to suggest we are "time shifting" the broadcasts but this is not the case as we are sharing beyond the national/regional limits of the original broadcast and "media shifting" where the copyright material is transposed to MP3 format for onward transmission. Both points specifically forbidden under the T&Cs of the various sources from which "copies" are taken.

The BBC as the copyright holder will be tied to their contractual agreements with the programme performers who would (probably) otherwise receive payment from future sales of the programme content; which a court case would argue that we are depriving them of.

If this Yahoo Group disappears overnight - it's a fair bet that it will be as a result of a "cease and desist" notice to the cappers and this Yahoo Group owner, who probably do not wish the floodlight of litigation to focus on them because a fool waved a flag at the BBC.

http://info.yahoo.com/copyright/us/details.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

Read the two links above to understand exactly what you have put at risk not only to the group but the kind people that infringe copyright for your pleasure.


I take it back; you are not a naive fool you are, with respect, a moron.



 
<<<<   7034   >>>>

Topic: Re: Missing JAMs

Message 9 / 17
Dave BMay 1, 2012
 
 
Thanks, just cassette tape.

Dave

Oh, I ended up looking at the Clithero Kid website. Brought back some memories of those echo-ey radio shows from the dim and distant past.

From: Clitheroe Kid <clitheroekid@...>
To: just-a-minute@...
Sent: Monday, 30 April 2012 10:30 PM
Subject: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs

 
Dave,
 
Please could you clarify - are your tapes reel-to-reel tapes from a tape recorder, or are they ordinary cassette tapes? 
 
The BBC continually monitor file sharing sites, and complain about BBC recordings found there, if they are still within copyright. All BBC radio and tv shows which first aired less than 50 years ago - i.e. after 1 Jan 1962 - still retain BBC copyright under the 1956 Copyright Act.

BBC Sound Archives hold a vast number of pre-1980 recordings, thousands of items; but they are mostly now transfered to digital storeage. The original LPs and magnetic tapes are mostly placed in the possession of The British Library, once they've been transfered to digital storeage - a process that involves restoring each item to remove hiss and other audible defects.
 
I didn't mean to imply there is no pre-1980 radio archive at the BBC. For many shows, there is. But it does not mean the Just A Minute shows are not held elsewhere inside BBC, on their original tape or vinyl medium. BBC Worldwide may still hold hundreds of unindexed, unsorted episodes of Just A Minute as LP recordings. It would be very difficult to identify which episodes, but I would not be surprised to learn that Worldwide are possessed of all the BBC's holdings, instead of Sound Archives, of this and many other shows.
 
BBC Enterprises were responsible for all overseas sales of all tv and radio shows in the past, and the master recordings for those shows often ended up in an Enterprises storeage facility by default, instead of being handed to Sound Archives. This was especially prone to happen where a series was popular with overseas stations, and so was actively being sold on contract to foreign broadcasters, as clearly occured with Just A Minute, which was popular in Australia and elsewhere.
 
Enterprises was responsible for delivering the LPs to ABC for all the shows which ABC currently air in their 5am slot, 7 days a week. Worldwide has probably inherited a huge stock of episodes for those shows, from the now-defunct BBC Enterprises. But those recordings will not be catalogued/indexed in any meaningful way. They will be unsorted, unindexed, most likely.
 
May I beat you all to the punch, and announce that today ABC aired the 'Romulus and Remus' episode - the final edition of series 4 - for the third straight week. Anyone want to tell them this?
 
 
To: just-a-minute@...
From: pondydave@...
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:30:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs



Thank you all for the recent TV episodes. I wonder if my recent email asking what the BBC thought of our file sharing might be connected with removals from Mediafire. I trust not. But you never know!

I just thought I would go through my surviving tape collection from 1978-1982, in case I have better tapes than may exist. Well I have a list of what I have on tape, but it will be impossible for me to hear the tapes as I have no player worth listening to. What I will do is check my MP3 collection (thank you all) from that period and see if there is anything hard to hear and if that coincides with tape in my possession I will offer it up. I had not realised until this recent topic that the BBC no longer APPEARED to retain pre 1980 shows (well whatvere we have concluded recently).

Anyway - back to 1978 for me - lucky me too.

But here is a list of what I have. Red being what I have, and blue being what I know I have but is either part missing or on a damaged tape (the one we recovered Getting Wound Up from). Oh, this is Dean's list (thanks).

Dave

250/12/5 21 March 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and June Whitfield, what makes me burst with pride.
251/12/6 28 March 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, making a good start.
252/12/7 4 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, salesmen.
253/12/8 11 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Sheila Hancock and Bernard Cribbins, customs.
254/12/9 18 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Patrick Moore, how to become celebrated.
255/12/10 25 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tommy Trinder, why parrots don't sneeze.
256/12/11 2 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Janet Brown, moose. LOST
257/12/12 9 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and June Whitfield, attack.
258/12/13 16 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, making up.
259/12/14 23 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, getting wound up.
260/13/1 23 January 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Aimi Macdonald and Patrick Moore, a grand opening. LOST
261/13/2 30 January 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, getting started. LOST
262/13/3 6 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Joan Bakewell, my ideal. LOST
263/13/4 13 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, excitement. LOST
264/13/5 20 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ray Alan, simplicity. LOST
265/13/6 27 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Tim Brooke-Taylor and Kenneth Robinson, why I should be knighted.
266/13/7 6 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Took and Peter Cook, my other self.
267/13/8 13 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Aimi Macdonald and Patrick Moore, foolishness.
268/13/9 20 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, customs.
269/13/10 27 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Joan Bakewell, improvisation.
270/13/11 8 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Kenneth Robinson and Miriam Margolyes, hotch potch.
271/13/12 15 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ray Alan, if I were not a thespian.
272/13/13 22 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, parbuckles.
273/13/14 29 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Took and Peter Cook, the Loch Ness monster.
274/14/1 11 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Peter Cook, how to get cracking.
275/14/2 18 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Lorraine Chase, taking a diabolical liberty.
276/14/3 25 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Lance Percival, exhibitionism.
277/14/4 1 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Patrick Moore, overdoing it.
278/14/5 8 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, looking ahead.
279/14/6 15 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, rolls.
280/14/7 22 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Rob Buckman, springing into action.
281/14/8 29 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Aimi Macdonald, Aimi Macdonald.
282/14/9 5 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Kenny Everett, the Mexican hat dance.
283/14/10 12 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, bugling.
284/14/11 19 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Barry Cryer, my resolution for this programme. LOST
285/14/12 26 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and John Junkin, getting a good start. LOST
286/14/13 4 March 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Bob Monkhouse, getting sent. LOST
287/14/14 11 March 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, my accolade. LOST
288/15/1 7 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, being forceful. LOST
289/15/2 14 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Cryer and Lance Percival, my following.
290/15/3 21 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Barry Took and Tim Brooke-Taylor, enough money. LOST
291/15/4 28 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones, having women in the show. LOST
292/15/5 4 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and John Junkin, parking meters.
293/15/6 11 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, fruit.
294/15/7 18 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, the best game.
295/15/8 25 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, bliss.
296/15/9 2 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Clement Freud, Kenneth Williams, Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden, getting ice cubes out of the tray.
297/15/10 9 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Barry Took and Tim Brooke-Taylor, striving for perfection.
298/15/11 16 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Aimi Macdonald, Irish humour.
299/15/12 23 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and John Junkin, getting a shock.
300/15/13 30 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, disreputable people.
302/16/1 23 January 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, the best way to lie.
303/16/2 30 January 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Sheila Hancock and Michael Wood, what amazes me.
304/16/3 6 February 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ian Messiter, the first time I appeared

From: badger dance <badger_dance@...>
To: just-a-minute@...
Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 2:13 AM
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs

 
Well written Stephen,

This echoes my experiences of the BBC and this the reason that it falls to the fan base to copy, catalogue and hold the programme archives via file sharing and P2P. The broadcasters can not be trusted to maintain and keep heritage content.  








 
<<<<   7036   >>>>

Topic: Re: Missing JAMs

Message 10 / 17
Espen KrømkeMay 1, 2012
 
 
On 01. mai 2012 18:58, Dave B wrote:  
I emailed the yahoo group on the subject...and you should be thrown out of this group for being so offensive.

I agree.



 
<<<<   7037   >>>>

Topic: Re: Missing JAMs

Message 11 / 17
kj.naughtonMay 1, 2012
 
 
Hi folks,

Just a quick point as this is a complicated area.

An Australian person wanting to sell "home brew" CDs of Just A Minute in Australia needs to look to Australian law to see what is and isn't allowed. Even though JAM is a UK work, it's the law of the country where the work is being used that counts. UK law is not extra-territorial regarding copyright and, in this example, what UK law says is irrelevant, even though the work originated there.

I use Australia as an example as Clitheroe Kid did below, but the principle applies to all countries that are signatories to the Berne Convention.

A lot of confusion arises because there's a difference between a work receiving copyright (which does depend on the laws of the country in which it was produced) and the protection that the work receives (which depends on the law in the country where the work is being used).

So to take a worked example, Let's say a radio show was broadcast in 1960 in the UK and it qualifies as a copyrighted work (i.e. it's got original work in it). And let's say the copyright expires after 50 years in the UK and 70 years in Australia. A person in the UK could therefore use legally profit from the work in the UK but it would still be illegal in Australia.

Cheers

kJ



--- In just-a-minute@..., Clitheroe Kid <clitheroekid@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Under UK law, broadcast copyright exists in a radio show under either the Copyright Act 1956 or the Act of 1988, depending on whether the broadcast in question was first aired before or after 1988.
>
> In the 1956 Act, there is only a prohibition on commercial use of a recording of a show, and only for 50 years. The Act does NOT prohibit non-commercial use.
>
> There is a campaign under way to try to get the file sharing sites to recognise that file shaing of a BBC show that was first broadcast before 1963 is not unlawdful, and that even if the episode aired after 1963 sharing it is still NOT banned by the Act unless money is paid - something which never happens in the context of file-sharing.
>
> You need to understand that, whatever the law might be in Australia, this is a BBC show, and the BBC is limited by the laws of England, not those of Australia. It can, under UK law, prevent commercial use of its shows, but not their non-commercial use.
>
> Beware of believing all the stuff on the internet about copyright law. Most of it turns out to relate to American copyright law. Very little of it applies in the UK.

 
<<<<   7046   >>>>

Topic: Missing JAMs

Message 12 / 17
Clitheroe KidMay 3, 2012
 
 
We are obviously using the example of Australia because 'Just A Minute' is a BBC show, made in the UK, but which is currently being aired in Australia.
 
Regarding the Berne Convention, I disagree. The Convention harmonises the laws of all signatory nations, in effect, so that the same laws exist in England and in Australia. Signatories to the Convention agree to do this - to change their copyright laws to comply with the provisions of the Convention. It's what signing the Convention treaty is all about.
 
For example, the UK copyright term is 70 years, now, which the UK changed as required by the Convention. But it was previously 50 years, and in the case of Broadcast Copyright - the copyright in a broadcast - it still is 50 yrs. The Convention is really about enforcement. The two countries have the same copyright laws, those which the Convention requires them to adopt, and this makes enforcement of a copyright claim in Australia straightforward.

A 1967 broadcast of Just A Minute will enjoy copyright as a broadcast for 50 years, i.e. until 2017. 
 
The law in Convention countries does NOT prohibit non-commercial use. But - a big but - an Australian wanting to sell CDs is not what we are discussing. I made the point about file sharing, that it is NOT a sale of the recording. The entire point of the NON-commercial exception is that where no money changes hands, i.e. in a file sharing event, that is NOT a sale of the work/recording. Where the work is given away for free, it is not a commercial use of the work, and there is accordingly no breach of copyright.
 
The BBC must prove, as required in the Berne Convention, that their copyright has been breached. In a claim by the BBC, they must inevitably fail if they cannot show this. Where there has not been a sale, but merely a gift, the BBC must inevitably fail on this point: for UK law, in compliance with the Convention, only prohibits commercial use - i.e. sale - of a copy, and if the file sharer has not been paid for the copy then commercial use cannot be shown.

 
 
> To: just-a-minute@...
> From: kj.naughton@...
> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 18:57:04 +0000
> Subject: [just-a-minute] Re: Missing JAMs
>
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Just a quick point as this is a complicated area.
>
> An Australian person wanting to sell "home brew" CDs of Just A Minute in Australia needs to look to Australian law to see what is and isn't allowed. Even though JAM is a UK work, it's the law of the country where the work is being used that counts. UK law is not extra-territorial regarding copyright and, in this example, what UK law says is irrelevant, even though the work originated there.
>
> I use Australia as an example as Clitheroe Kid did below, but the principle applies to all countries that are signatories to the Berne Convention.
>
> A lot of confusion arises because there's a difference between a work receiving copyright (which does depend on the laws of the country in which it was produced) and the protection that the work receives (which depends on the law in the country where the work is being used).
>
> So to take a worked example, Let's say a radio show was broadcast in 1960 in the UK and it qualifies as a copyrighted work (i.e. it's got original work in it). And let's say the copyright expires after 50 years in the UK and 70 years in Australia. A person in the UK could therefore use legally profit from the work in the UK but it would still be illegal in Australia.
>
> Cheers
>
> kJ
>
>
>
> --- In just-a-minute@..., Clitheroe Kid <clitheroekid@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Under UK law, broadcast copyright exists in a radio show under either the Copyright Act 1956 or the Act of 1988, depending on whether the broadcast in question was first aired before or after 1988.
> >
> > In the 1956 Act, there is only a prohibition on commercial use of a recording of a show, and only for 50 years. The Act does NOT prohibit non-commercial use.
> >
> > There is a campaign under way to try to get the file sharing sites to recognise that file shaing of a BBC show that was first broadcast before 1963 is not unlawdful, and that even if the episode aired after 1963 sharing it is still NOT banned by the Act unless money is paid - something which never happens in the context of file-sharing.
> >
> > You need to understand that, whatever the law might be in Australia, this is a BBC show, and the BBC is limited by the laws of England, not those of Australia. It can, under UK law, prevent commercial use of its shows, but not their non-commercial use.
> >
> > Beware of believing all the stuff on the internet about copyright law. Most of it turns out to relate to American copyright law. Very little of it applies in the UK.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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<<<<   7047   >>>>

Topic: Re: Missing JAMs

Message 13 / 17
badger danceMay 3, 2012
 
 
Sorry Clitheroe Kid you are also wrong on this point.

The BBC television programmes audio/visual AND sound track only versions that have been copied and released through this user group are in direct violation of the terms and conditions of the BBC that it sets with it's audience. Same as the radio programmes, new or old.

"...and you may not assist anyone to, or attempt to, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, adapt, modify, copy, reproduce, lend, hire, rent, perform, sub-license, make available to the public..."

"All copyright, trade marks, design rights, patents and other intellectual property rights (registered and unregistered) in and on BBC Online Services and BBC Content belong to the BBC and/or third parties (which may include you or other users). The BBC reserves all of its rights in BBC Content and BBC Online Services. Nothing in the Terms grants you a right or licence to use any trade mark, design right or copyright owned or controlled by the BBC or any other third party except as expressly provided in the Terms."

Source: BBC T&Cs

Also the Australian copyright law defers to the copyright law of the country from where the copyright programme material comes from, so that will be UK law then. I provided the link in my last message on this point.

The fact remains that the BBC may turn a blind eye to this group maybe out of the grace of a person within the JAM programme chain that might have been consulted about the on-line fan base here. HOWEVER it is not a clever act to go poking the BBC via a random email to say "Hey we are her copying and sharing YOUR stuff internationally"  It is the money grabbers with BBC Worldwide Ltd that will invoke their power to close this gap.

BBC Worldwide Ltd have better copyright lawyers than you or I can afford - the best policy is to do what we do quietly and not go poking the hand that feeds, common sense to those with an IQ in double figures surely?

 
<<<<   7048   >>>>

Topic: Re: Missing JAMs

Message 14 / 17
kj.naughtonMay 3, 2012
 
 
Hi folks,

I think we have a fairly minor disagreement here. The Berne Convention does not so much harmonise copyright laws; rather it specifies minimum standards. Any country is free to create their own copyright law with different terms to the Berne Convention providing that they offer greater protection.

It's actually the same for most international treaties. Here in the UK we fairly regularly hear examples of EU regulations being implemented into domestic law in the UK in one way (typically a fairly strict way) but differently in other countries (usually a bit less strict). And that usually makes headlines in certain newspapers.

An example in the copyright arena is the USA who have retained the (optional) registration of copyrighted works. The Berne Convention says that copyright is automatic and US law now acknowledges that. But registering copyright is still available and does confer certain advantages above those given in the Convention. That wouldn't be possible if one views the Berne Convention as harmonising laws; it is possible if one views it as setting minimum standards.

My point wasn't to argue whether a particular work is or isn't copyright or whether exceptions are made for non-commercial use or not - I have no view on that. All I am saying is that copyright law does vary from country to country and people need to understand the law in their own country.

My example of someone selling CDs was intended to illustrate that general point, not to comment on anyone else's arguments. So I accept is isn't relevant to the discussion on JaM recordings but then again it wasn't supposed to be relevant.

If a country defers to the law of the country of origin of the work (as Badger Dance states) then fine. But, again, that's for people in that country to know and understand.

People should make informed decisions based on their own circumstances. I don't think anyone would argue with that. :-)

kJ

--- In just-a-minute@..., Clitheroe Kid <clitheroekid@...> wrote:
>
>
> We are obviously using the example of Australia because 'Just A Minute' is a BBC show, made in the UK, but which is currently being aired in Australia.
>
> Regarding the Berne Convention, I disagree. The Convention harmonises the laws of all signatory nations, in effect, so that the same laws exist in England and in Australia. Signatories to the Convention agree to do this - to change their copyright laws to comply with the provisions of the Convention. It's what signing the Convention treaty is all about.
>
> For example, the UK copyright term is 70 years, now, which the UK changed as required by the Convention. But it was previously 50 years, and in the case of Broadcast Copyright - the copyright in a broadcast - it still is 50 yrs. The Convention is really about enforcement. The two countries have the same copyright laws, those which the Convention requires them to adopt, and this makes enforcement of a copyright claim in Australia straightforward.
>
> A 1967 broadcast of Just A Minute will enjoy copyright as a broadcast for 50 years, i.e. until 2017.
>
> The law in Convention countries does NOT prohibit non-commercial use. But - a big but - an Australian wanting to sell CDs is not what we are discussing. I made the point about file sharing, that it is NOT a sale of the recording. The entire point of the NON-commercial exception is that where no money changes hands, i.e. in a file sharing event, that is NOT a sale of the work/recording. Where the work is given away for free, it is not a commercial use of the work, and there is accordingly no breach of copyright.
>
> The BBC must prove, as required in the Berne Convention, that their copyright has been breached. In a claim by the BBC, they must inevitably fail if they cannot show this. Where there has not been a sale, but merely a gift, the BBC must inevitably fail on this point: for UK law, in compliance with the Convention, only prohibits commercial use - i.e. sale - of a copy, and if the file sharer has not been paid for the copy then commercial use cannot be shown.

 
<<<<   7080   >>>>

Topic: Missing JAMs

Message 15 / 17
Clitheroe KidMay 7, 2012
 
 
Do you have a view on what the likely outcome might be, if the BBC was to sue in Australia for a breach of copyright in circumstances where no infringement would occur if the same act was done in London, i.e. making a gift of a copy (non-commercial use)?
 
In other words, is non-commercial use a breach of copyright in Australia?


> To: just-a-minute@...
> From: kj.naughton@...
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 21:21:34 +0000
> Subject: [just-a-minute] Re: Missing JAMs
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I think we have a fairly minor disagreement here. The Berne Convention does not so much harmonise copyright laws; rather it specifies minimum standards. Any country is free to create their own copyright law with different terms to the Berne Convention providing that they offer greater protection.
>
> It's actually the same for most international treaties. Here in the UK we fairly regularly hear examples of EU regulations being implemented into domestic law in the UK in one way (typically a fairly strict way) but differently in other countries (usually a bit less strict). And that usually makes headlines in certain newspapers.
>
> An example in the copyright arena is the USA who have retained the (optional) registration of copyrighted works. The Berne Convention says that copyright is automatic and US law now acknowledges that. But registering copyright is still available and does confer certain advantages above those given in the Convention. That wouldn't be possible if one views the Berne Convention as harmonising laws; it is possible if one views it as setting minimum standards.
>
> My point wasn't to argue whether a particular work is or isn't copyright or whether exceptions are made for non-commercial use or not - I have no view on that. All I am saying is that copyright law does vary from country to country and people need to understand the law in their own country.
>
> My example of someone selling CDs was intended to illustrate that general point, not to comment on anyone else's arguments. So I accept is isn't relevant to the discussion on JaM recordings but then again it wasn't supposed to be relevant.
>
> If a country defers to the law of the country of origin of the work (as Badger Dance states) then fine. But, again, that's for people in that country to know and understand.
>
> People should make informed decisions based on their own circumstances. I don't think anyone would argue with that. :-)
>
> kJ
>
> --- In just-a-minute@..., Clitheroe Kid <clitheroekid@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > We are obviously using the example of Australia because 'Just A Minute' is a BBC show, made in the UK, but which is currently being aired in Australia.
> >
> > Regarding the Berne Convention, I disagree. The Convention harmonises the laws of all signatory nations, in effect, so that the same laws exist in England and in Australia. Signatories to the Convention agree to do this - to change their copyright laws to comply with the provisions of the Convention. It's what signing the Convention treaty is all about.
> >
> > For example, the UK copyright term is 70 years, now, which the UK changed as required by the Convention. But it was previously 50 years, and in the case of Broadcast Copyright - the copyright in a broadcast - it still is 50 yrs. The Convention is really about enforcement. The two countries have the same copyright laws, those which the Convention requires them to adopt, and this makes enforcement of a copyright claim in Australia straightforward.
> >
> > A 1967 broadcast of Just A Minute will enjoy copyright as a broadcast for 50 years, i.e. until 2017.
> >
> > The law in Convention countries does NOT prohibit non-commercial use. But - a big but - an Australian wanting to sell CDs is not what we are discussing. I made the point about file sharing, that it is NOT a sale of the recording. The entire point of the NON-commercial exception is that where no money changes hands, i.e. in a file sharing event, that is NOT a sale of the work/recording. Where the work is given away for free, it is not a commercial use of the work, and there is accordingly no breach of copyright.
> >
> > The BBC must prove, as required in the Berne Convention, that their copyright has been breached. In a claim by the BBC, they must inevitably fail if they cannot show this. Where there has not been a sale, but merely a gift, the BBC must inevitably fail on this point: for UK law, in compliance with the Convention, only prohibits commercial use - i.e. sale - of a copy, and if the file sharer has not been paid for the copy then commercial use cannot be shown.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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<<<<   7081   >>>>

Topic: Missing JAMs

Message 16 / 17
Clitheroe KidMay 7, 2012
 
 
All that you are doing is quoting from a clause on the BBC's website.
 
What the BBC choose to say on their website is, of course, entirely a matter for them; but they are not at liberty to modify the laws of the land. In English law, broadcast copyright is governed solely and exclusively by the Copyright Act 1956 if the recording was first broadcast before 1988.
 
Nothing on a BBC web page is capable of modifying an Act of Parliament.
 
If there was a contract between the BBC and a third party, then some contract terms could be agreed, perhaps on the lines of the clauses you've quoted; but there is no contract. In English law, a contract requires the payment of money - technically known as 'consideration' money - in order to give rise to a contract. A web user does not pay for access to the BBC site, which has no subscription services.
 
But even then, a contract would not be effective to alter the laws of the land. 

 
To: just-a-minute@...
From: badger_dance@...
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 07:57:33 -0700
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs



Sorry Clitheroe Kid you are also wrong on this point.

The BBC television programmes audio/visual AND sound track only versions that have been copied and released through this user group are in direct violation of the terms and conditions of the BBC that it sets with it's audience. Same as the radio programmes, new or old.

"...and you may not assist anyone to, or attempt to, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, adapt, modify, copy, reproduce, lend, hire, rent, perform, sub-license, make available to the public..."

"All copyright, trade marks, design rights, patents and other intellectual property rights (registered and unregistered) in and on BBC Online Services and BBC Content belong to the BBC and/or third parties (which may include you or other users). The BBC reserves all of its rights in BBC Content and BBC Online Services. Nothing in the Terms grants you a right or licence to use any trade mark, design right or copyright owned or controlled by the BBC or any other third party except as expressly provided in the Terms."

Source: BBC T&Cs

Also the Australian copyright law defers to the copyright law of the country from where the copyright programme material comes from, so that will be UK law then. I provided the link in my last message on this point.

The fact remains that the BBC may turn a blind eye to this group maybe out of the grace of a person within the JAM programme chain that might have been consulted about the on-line fan base here. HOWEVER it is not a clever act to go poking the BBC via a random email to say "Hey we are her copying and sharing YOUR stuff internationally"  It is the money grabbers with BBC Worldwide Ltd that will invoke their power to close this gap.

BBC Worldwide Ltd have better copyright lawyers than you or I can afford - the best policy is to do what we do quietly and not go poking the hand that feeds, common sense to those with an IQ in double figures surely?



 
<<<<   7084   >>>>

Topic: Re: Missing JAMs

Message 17 / 17
kj.naughtonMay 7, 2012
 
 
Hi Clitheroe Kid,

Sorry, no idea. Australian law doesn't affect me - except when I'm over there visiting the family in Geelong.

Cheers

kJ

--- In just-a-minute@..., Clitheroe Kid <clitheroekid@...> wrote:
>
>
> Do you have a view on what the likely outcome might be, if the BBC was to sue in Australia for a breach of copyright in circumstances where no infringement would occur if the same act was done in London, i.e. making a gift of a copy (non-commercial use)?
>
> In other words, is non-commercial use a breach of copyright in Australia?

 
<<<<   7084   >>>>

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