Just A Minute

-----Original Message-----
From: clitheroekid@...
Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:30:48 +0000
To: just-a-minute@...
Subject: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs

 

Dave,
 
Please could you clarify - are your tapes reel-to-reel tapes from a tape recorder, or are they ordinary cassette tapes? 
 
The BBC continually monitor file sharing sites, and complain about BBC recordings found there, if they are still within copyright. All BBC radio and tv shows which first aired less than 50 years ago - i.e. after 1 Jan 1962 - still retain BBC copyright under the 1956 Copyright Act.

BBC Sound Archives hold a vast number of pre-1980 recordings, thousands of items; but they are mostly now transfered to digital storeage. The original LPs and magnetic tapes are mostly placed in the possession of The British Library, once they've been transfered to digital storeage - a process that involves restoring each item to remove hiss and other audible defects.
 
I didn't mean to imply there is no pre-1980 radio archive at the BBC. For many shows, there is. But it does not mean the Just A Minute shows are not held elsewhere inside BBC, on their original tape or vinyl medium. BBC Worldwide may still hold hundreds of unindexed, unsorted episodes of Just A Minute as LP recordings. It would be very difficult to identify which episodes, but I would not be surprised to learn that Worldwide are possessed of all the BBC's holdings, instead of Sound Archives, of this and many other shows.
 
BBC Enterprises were responsible for all overseas sales of all tv and radio shows in the past, and the master recordings for those shows often ended up in an Enterprises storeage facility by default, instead of being handed to Sound Archives. This was especially prone to happen where a series was popular with overseas stations, and so was actively being sold on contract to foreign broadcasters, as clearly occured with Just A Minute, which was popular in Australia and elsewhere.
 
Enterprises was responsible for delivering the LPs to ABC for all the shows which ABC currently air in their 5am slot, 7 days a week. Worldwide has probably inherited a huge stock of episodes for those shows, from the now-defunct BBC Enterprises. But those recordings will not be catalogued/indexed in any meaningful way. They will be unsorted, unindexed, most likely.
 
May I beat you all to the punch, and announce that today ABC aired the 'Romulus and Remus' episode - the final edition of series 4 - for the third straight week. Anyone want to tell them this?
 
 

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To: just-a-minute@...
From: pondydave@...
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:30:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs

Thank you all for the recent TV episodes. I wonder if my recent email asking what the BBC thought of our file sharing might be connected with removals from Mediafire. I trust not. But you never know!

I just thought I would go through my surviving tape collection from 1978-1982, in case I have better tapes than may exist. Well I have a list of what I have on tape, but it will be impossible for me to hear the tapes as I have no player worth listening to. What I will do is check my MP3 collection (thank you all) from that period and see if there is anything hard to hear and if that coincides with tape in my possession I will offer it up. I had not realised until this recent topic that the BBC no longer APPEARED to retain pre 1980 shows (well whatvere we have concluded recently).

Anyway - back to 1978 for me - lucky me too.

But here is a list of what I have. Red being what I have, and blue being what I know I have but is either part missing or on a damaged tape (the one we recovered Getting Wound Up from). Oh, this is Dean's list (thanks).

Dave

250/12/5 21 March 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and June Whitfield, what makes me burst with pride.

251/12/6 28 March 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, making a good start.

252/12/7 4 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, salesmen.

253/12/8 11 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Sheila Hancock and Bernard Cribbins, customs.

254/12/9 18 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Patrick Moore, how to become celebrated.

255/12/10 25 April 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tommy Trinder, why parrots don't sneeze.

256/12/11 2 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Janet Brown, moose. LOST

257/12/12 9 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and June Whitfield, attack.

258/12/13 16 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, making up.

259/12/14 23 May 1978, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, getting wound up.

260/13/1 23 January 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Aimi Macdonald and Patrick Moore, a grand opening. LOST

261/13/2 30 January 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, getting started. LOST

262/13/3 6 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Joan Bakewell, my ideal. LOST

263/13/4 13 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, excitement. LOST

264/13/5 20 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ray Alan, simplicity. LOST

265/13/6 27 February 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Tim Brooke-Taylor and Kenneth Robinson, why I should be knighted.

266/13/7 6 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Took and Peter Cook, my other self.

267/13/8 13 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Aimi Macdonald and Patrick Moore, foolishness.

268/13/9 20 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, customs.

269/13/10 27 March 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Joan Bakewell, improvisation.

270/13/11 8 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Kenneth Robinson and Miriam Margolyes, hotch potch.

271/13/12 15 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ray Alan, if I were not a thespian.

272/13/13 22 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, parbuckles.

273/13/14 29 May 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Took and Peter Cook, the Loch Ness monster.

274/14/1 11 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Peter Cook, how to get cracking.

275/14/2 18 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Lorraine Chase, taking a diabolical liberty.

276/14/3 25 December 1979, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Lance Percival, exhibitionism.

277/14/4 1 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Patrick Moore, overdoing it.

278/14/5 8 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, looking ahead.

279/14/6 15 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, rolls.

280/14/7 22 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Rob Buckman, springing into action.

281/14/8 29 January 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Aimi Macdonald, Aimi Macdonald.

282/14/9 5 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Kenny Everett, the Mexican hat dance.

283/14/10 12 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, bugling.

284/14/11 19 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Barry Cryer, my resolution for this programme. LOST

285/14/12 26 February 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and John Junkin, getting a good start. LOST

286/14/13 4 March 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Bob Monkhouse, getting sent. LOST

287/14/14 11 March 1980, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, my accolade. LOST

288/15/1 7 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, being forceful. LOST

289/15/2 14 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Barry Cryer and Lance Percival, my following.

290/15/3 21 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Barry Took and Tim Brooke-Taylor, enough money. LOST

291/15/4 28 March 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones, having women in the show. LOST

292/15/5 4 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and John Junkin, parking meters.

293/15/6 11 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, fruit.

294/15/7 18 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, the best game.

295/15/8 25 April 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Tim Rice, bliss.

296/15/9 2 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Clement Freud, Kenneth Williams, Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden, getting ice cubes out of the tray.

297/15/10 9 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Barry Took and Tim Brooke-Taylor, striving for perfection.

298/15/11 16 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Aimi Macdonald, Irish humour.

299/15/12 23 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and John Junkin, getting a shock.

300/15/13 30 May 1981, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Sheila Hancock, disreputable people.

302/16/1 23 January 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Clement Freud and Peter Jones, the best way to lie.

303/16/2 30 January 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones, Sheila Hancock and Michael Wood, what amazes me.

304/16/3 6 February 1982, Nicholas Parsons with Kenneth Williams, Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Ian Messiter, the first time I appeared

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From: badger dance <badger_dance@...>
To: just-a-minute@...
Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 2:13 AM
Subject: Re: [just-a-minute] Missing JAMs

 

Well written Stephen, This echoes my experiences of the BBC and this the reason that it falls to the fan base to copy, catalogue and hold the programme archives via file sharing and P2P. The broadcasters can not be trusted to maintain and keep heritage content.

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On 01. mai 2012 18:58, Dave B wrote:  

I emailed the yahoo group on the subject...and you should be thrown out of this group for being so offensive.

--- In just-a-minute@..., Clitheroe Kid <clitheroekid@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Under UK law, broadcast copyright exists in a radio show under either the Copyright Act 1956 or the Act of 1988, depending on whether the broadcast in question was first aired before or after 1988.
>
> In the 1956 Act, there is only a prohibition on commercial use of a recording of a show, and only for 50 years. The Act does NOT prohibit non-commercial use.
>
> There is a campaign under way to try to get the file sharing sites to recognise that file shaing of a BBC show that was first broadcast before 1963 is not unlawdful, and that even if the episode aired after 1963 sharing it is still NOT banned by the Act unless money is paid - something which never happens in the context of file-sharing.
>
> You need to understand that, whatever the law might be in Australia, this is a BBC show, and the BBC is limited by the laws of England, not those of Australia. It can, under UK law, prevent commercial use of its shows, but not their non-commercial use.
>
> Beware of believing all the stuff on the internet about copyright law. Most of it turns out to relate to American copyright law. Very little of it applies in the UK.

--- In just-a-minute@..., Clitheroe Kid <clitheroekid@...> wrote:
>
>
> We are obviously using the example of Australia because 'Just A Minute' is a BBC show, made in the UK, but which is currently being aired in Australia.
>
> Regarding the Berne Convention, I disagree. The Convention harmonises the laws of all signatory nations, in effect, so that the same laws exist in England and in Australia. Signatories to the Convention agree to do this - to change their copyright laws to comply with the provisions of the Convention. It's what signing the Convention treaty is all about.
>
> For example, the UK copyright term is 70 years, now, which the UK changed as required by the Convention. But it was previously 50 years, and in the case of Broadcast Copyright - the copyright in a broadcast - it still is 50 yrs. The Convention is really about enforcement. The two countries have the same copyright laws, those which the Convention requires them to adopt, and this makes enforcement of a copyright claim in Australia straightforward.
>
> A 1967 broadcast of Just A Minute will enjoy copyright as a broadcast for 50 years, i.e. until 2017.
>
> The law in Convention countries does NOT prohibit non-commercial use. But - a big but - an Australian wanting to sell CDs is not what we are discussing. I made the point about file sharing, that it is NOT a sale of the recording. The entire point of the NON-commercial exception is that where no money changes hands, i.e. in a file sharing event, that is NOT a sale of the work/recording. Where the work is given away for free, it is not a commercial use of the work, and there is accordingly no breach of copyright.
>
> The BBC must prove, as required in the Berne Convention, that their copyright has been breached. In a claim by the BBC, they must inevitably fail if they cannot show this. Where there has not been a sale, but merely a gift, the BBC must inevitably fail on this point: for UK law, in compliance with the Convention, only prohibits commercial use - i.e. sale - of a copy, and if the file sharer has not been paid for the copy then commercial use cannot be shown.

--- In just-a-minute@..., Clitheroe Kid <clitheroekid@...> wrote:
>
>
> Do you have a view on what the likely outcome might be, if the BBC was to sue in Australia for a breach of copyright in circumstances where no infringement would occur if the same act was done in London, i.e. making a gift of a copy (non-commercial use)?
>
> In other words, is non-commercial use a breach of copyright in Australia?