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<<<<   8989   >>>>

Topic: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 1 / 12
peterjaybirdMay 26, 2013
 

 
I originally thought that perhaps the JAM TV programme of April 20th 1999 (kindly posted by Martin) was misdated. Most episode guides suggest that this episode was broadcast on May 7th 1999 (TV43 s03e15, featuring panelists Tony Hawks, Wendy Richard, Steve Frost, Clare Balding and a first subject of "What I'd Really Like to Talk About").

However, the video opens by displaying the following:
Just a Minute
BBC Television
Programme 2
Originally broadcast
Tuesday 20th April 1999

Pete

 
<<<<   9008   >>>>

Topic: Re: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 2 / 12
DeanJun 2, 2013
 

 

 
<<<<   9011   >>>>

Topic: Re: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 3 / 12
martin_e_hoodJun 2, 2013
 

 
Help Please?

Thanks to Dean for his input.

Can anyone confirm the provenance (original source) of these recordings or provide independent verification of the program broadcast dates and content?

There is precious little information in the 1999 Radio Times listings and certainly nothing that would help identify individual episodes.

Alternatively, are there other sources of information available about the TV series, keeping in mind the incestuous and plagiasing nature of the Internet whereby multiple sources may all derive from the same original, frequently unreferenced and uncredited, and hence not be definitive.

Best regards,

Martin

--- In just-a-minute@..., "Dean" <dbedford@...> wrote:
>
> surely the question is who added the label and in what circumstances. We know for sure it wasn't broadcast at the time â€" the videos I have here were recorded off TV and didn't have it. In the end a label is a label, even if electronically added to a recording, and we know that people can add labels that are incorrect. I am pretty comfortable with the list as I have it, but I'm open to amendment if we can answer the first question.
>
>
>
> From: peterjaybird
> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 4:21 AM
> To: just-a-minute@...
> Subject: [just-a-minute] Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?
>
>
> I originally thought that perhaps the JAM TV programme of April 20th 1999 (kindly posted by Martin) was misdated. Most episode guides suggest that this episode was broadcast on May 7th 1999 (TV43 s03e15, featuring panelists Tony Hawks, Wendy Richard, Steve Frost, Clare Balding and a first subject of "What I'd Really Like to Talk About").
>
> However, the video opens by displaying the following:
> Just a Minute
> BBC Television
> Programme 2
> Originally broadcast
> Tuesday 20th April 1999
>
> Pete
>

 
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Topic: Re: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 4 / 12
DeanJun 2, 2013
 

 

 
<<<<   9022   >>>>

Topic: Re: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 5 / 12
Simon B KellyJun 3, 2013
 

 
I've checked the BBC Programme Archive database and copied the production IDs, broadcast dates and guests for the 20 episodes shown in 1999. They are as follows:

NBHJ182 [1999-04-20] Tony HAWKS, Clare BALDING, Wendy RICHARD & Stephen FROST
NBHJ183 [1999-04-29] Tony HAWKS, Clare BALDING, Wendy RICHARD & Stephen FROST
NBHJ184 [1999-04-26] Barry CRYER, Wendy RICHARD, Stephen FROST & Tony HAWKS
NBHJ185 [1999-05-10] Barry CRYER, Wendy RICHARD, Stephen FROST & Tony HAWKS
NBHJ186 [1999-04-19] Barry CRYER, Su POLLARD, Brian SEWELL & John SERGEANT
NBHJ187 [1999-04-30] Barry CRYER, Su POLLARD, Brian SEWELL & John SERGEANT
NBHJ188 [1999-05-12] Tony HAWKS, Jo BRAND, Gyles BRANDRETH & Peter JONES
NBHJ189 [1999-04-23] Tony HAWKS, Jo BRAND, Gyles BRANDRETH & Peter JONES
NBHJ190 [1999-04-28] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Richard VRANCH & Tom O'CONNOR
NBHJ191 [1999-05-26] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Richard VRANCH & Tom O'CONNOR
NBHJ192 [1999-05-05] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Ken BRUCE & Gyles BRANDRETH
NBHJ193 [1999-05-14] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Ken BRUCE & Gyles BRANDRETH
NBHJ194 [1999-04-21] Linda SMITH, Gary WILMOT, Isla BLAIR & Gyles BRANDRETH
NBHJ195 [1999-05-03] Linda SMITH, Gary WILMOT, Isla BLAIR & Gyles BRANDRETH
NBHJ196 [1999-04-22] Linda SMITH, Peter JONES, Wendy RICHARD & Pam AYRES
NBHJ197 [1999-05-06] Linda SMITH, Peter JONES, Wendy RICHARD & Pam AYRES
NBHJ198 [1999-04-27] Linda SMITH, Michael CASHMAN, Peter JONES & Maria MCERLANE
NBHJ199 [1999-05-11] Linda SMITH, Michael CASHMAN, Peter JONES & Maria MCERLANE
NBHJ200 [1999-05-04] Linda SMITH, Steve PUNT, Wendy RICHARD & Maria MCERLANE
NBHJ201 [1999-05-13] Linda SMITH, Steve PUNT, Wendy RICHARD & Maria MCERLANE

I've listed them by production IDs which is presumably the order they were recorded in. IIRC, Nicholas mentioned in his book that the whole series was done in a week which would suggest 4 shows a day!

There was definitely no episode of Just A Minute shown on Friday, 7th May - in its place was a 95 minute election special entitled "Vote 99". That meant there was one odd episode that was eventually screened at 12.30pm on Wednesday, 26th May - a couple of weeks after the series has finished!

I have verified the broadcast dates using programme listings published in The Times daily newspaper.

Simon

--- In just-a-minute@..., "martin_e_hood" <mhood@...> wrote:
>
> Help Please?
>
> Thanks to Dean for his input.
>
> Can anyone confirm the provenance (original source) of these recordings or provide independent verification of the program broadcast dates and content?
>
> There is precious little information in the 1999 Radio Times listings and certainly nothing that would help identify individual episodes.
>

 
<<<<   9023   >>>>

Topic: Re: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 6 / 12
charles_rookeJun 3, 2013
 

 
Thanks Simon. Having compared the contestants, broadcast dates and first rounds with Dean's and Martin's lists and the episodes we have it would seem that everything stacks up except episodes 02 and 15. With regard to those two, the position seems to be:

The video Martin uploased labelled as e02 is "What I'd Really Like To Talk About" with Hawks/Balding/Richard/Frost. Your broadcast dates place this as 1999-04-20 e02 (ie. as the video is labelled, rather than as per Dean's listing).

The missing video, for which we have sound, is "Saying Sorry" with Goddard/Morton/Vranch/O'Connor. Your broadcast dates place this as 1999-05-26, not 1999-05-07. Which raises an interesting question - if it isn't e02 then:

- Should "Saying Sorry" be identified as e15, thus leaving s16-s20 as they are?

- or should the existing e16-e20 be re-identified as s15-e19, with "Saying Sorry" becoming e20?

I'd prefer to keep my collection in line with Dean's catalogue - so will await his views.

Charlie

--- In just-a-minute@..., "Simon B Kelly" <simonbkelly@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I've checked the BBC Programme Archive database and copied the production IDs, broadcast dates and guests for the 20 episodes shown in 1999. They are as follows:
>
> NBHJ182 [1999-04-20] Tony HAWKS, Clare BALDING, Wendy RICHARD & Stephen FROST
> NBHJ183 [1999-04-29] Tony HAWKS, Clare BALDING, Wendy RICHARD & Stephen FROST
> NBHJ184 [1999-04-26] Barry CRYER, Wendy RICHARD, Stephen FROST & Tony HAWKS
> NBHJ185 [1999-05-10] Barry CRYER, Wendy RICHARD, Stephen FROST & Tony HAWKS
> NBHJ186 [1999-04-19] Barry CRYER, Su POLLARD, Brian SEWELL & John SERGEANT
> NBHJ187 [1999-04-30] Barry CRYER, Su POLLARD, Brian SEWELL & John SERGEANT
> NBHJ188 [1999-05-12] Tony HAWKS, Jo BRAND, Gyles BRANDRETH & Peter JONES
> NBHJ189 [1999-04-23] Tony HAWKS, Jo BRAND, Gyles BRANDRETH & Peter JONES
> NBHJ190 [1999-04-28] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Richard VRANCH & Tom O'CONNOR
> NBHJ191 [1999-05-26] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Richard VRANCH & Tom O'CONNOR
> NBHJ192 [1999-05-05] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Ken BRUCE & Gyles BRANDRETH
> NBHJ193 [1999-05-14] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Ken BRUCE & Gyles BRANDRETH
> NBHJ194 [1999-04-21] Linda SMITH, Gary WILMOT, Isla BLAIR & Gyles BRANDRETH
> NBHJ195 [1999-05-03] Linda SMITH, Gary WILMOT, Isla BLAIR & Gyles BRANDRETH
> NBHJ196 [1999-04-22] Linda SMITH, Peter JONES, Wendy RICHARD & Pam AYRES
> NBHJ197 [1999-05-06] Linda SMITH, Peter JONES, Wendy RICHARD & Pam AYRES
> NBHJ198 [1999-04-27] Linda SMITH, Michael CASHMAN, Peter JONES & Maria MCERLANE
> NBHJ199 [1999-05-11] Linda SMITH, Michael CASHMAN, Peter JONES & Maria MCERLANE
> NBHJ200 [1999-05-04] Linda SMITH, Steve PUNT, Wendy RICHARD & Maria MCERLANE
> NBHJ201 [1999-05-13] Linda SMITH, Steve PUNT, Wendy RICHARD & Maria MCERLANE
>
> I've listed them by production IDs which is presumably the order they were recorded in. IIRC, Nicholas mentioned in his book that the whole series was done in a week which would suggest 4 shows a day!
>
> There was definitely no episode of Just A Minute shown on Friday, 7th May - in its place was a 95 minute election special entitled "Vote 99". That meant there was one odd episode that was eventually screened at 12.30pm on Wednesday, 26th May - a couple of weeks after the series has finished!
>
> I have verified the broadcast dates using programme listings published in The Times daily newspaper.
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> --- In just-a-minute@..., "martin_e_hood" <mhood@> wrote:
> >
> > Help Please?
> >
> > Thanks to Dean for his input.
> >
> > Can anyone confirm the provenance (original source) of these recordings or provide independent verification of the program broadcast dates and content?
> >
> > There is precious little information in the 1999 Radio Times listings and certainly nothing that would help identify individual episodes.
> >
>

 
<<<<   9027   >>>>

Topic: Re: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 7 / 12
peterjaybirdJun 3, 2013
 

 
Thanks for all the feedback on this discrepancy. I could be wrong (I often am!), but it appears that the 1999 programmes were filmed in pairs (since the same panelists appeared in only two broadcasts). Naturally, that doesn't necessarily mean that they were broadcast in that order. It's up to Dean to decide if the date needs to be changed.

Pete

 
<<<<   9030   >>>>

Topic: Re: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 8 / 12
Simon B KellyJun 3, 2013
 

 
This is where things get confusing as we don't know the order that the episodes were originally intended to be broadcast. Did the BBC simply postpone s03e15 until May 26th and show episodes 16-20 first? Or were episodes 15-19 shown May 10th-14th and s03e20 delayed until May 26th?

We have the production order and the transmission order but not the originally scheduled order which may differ. Further investigation required on this one...

 
<<<<   9033   >>>>

Topic: Re: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 9 / 12
martin_e_hoodJun 3, 2013
 

 
Excellent detective work Simon! It is great to get a listing like this that confirms the other entries in Dean's episode guide, clarifies the skipped broadcast on 1999.05.07 and confirms that a broadcast occurred on 1999.05.26.

Charlie's subsequent post analyses the options.

I agree with his analysis as it is the simplest solution, and hence usually the correct one.

1999.04.20 s03e02 'What I'd really like to Talk About' (Hawks/Richard/Frost/Balding) (as in the video itself)

1999.05.26 s03e20 'Saying Sorry' (Vranch/Goddard/Morton/O'Connor)

With the current episodes 16-20 being renamed 15-19.

As an aside, for this series, there is an indication of some forward planning for the actual broadcast date. In the episode:

JAM TV - 1999-04-23 s03e05 #033 - St George's Day

Nicholas says 'I've just realised something. The subject is so apt for today because it is St George's Day'.

This indicates that the broadcast date for (at least) this episode must have been known or planned in advance. It is rare for such definitively date identifying statements to exist in panel game programs.

Thanks again Simon for the information required to resolve this issue. I also look forward to any treasures you may unearth from your collection of VHS tapes.

Martin

--- In just-a-minute@..., "Simon B Kelly" <simonbkelly@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I've checked the BBC Programme Archive database and copied the production IDs, broadcast dates and guests for the 20 episodes shown in 1999. They are as follows:
>
> NBHJ182 [1999-04-20] Tony HAWKS, Clare BALDING, Wendy RICHARD & Stephen FROST
> NBHJ183 [1999-04-29] Tony HAWKS, Clare BALDING, Wendy RICHARD & Stephen FROST
> NBHJ184 [1999-04-26] Barry CRYER, Wendy RICHARD, Stephen FROST & Tony HAWKS
> NBHJ185 [1999-05-10] Barry CRYER, Wendy RICHARD, Stephen FROST & Tony HAWKS
> NBHJ186 [1999-04-19] Barry CRYER, Su POLLARD, Brian SEWELL & John SERGEANT
> NBHJ187 [1999-04-30] Barry CRYER, Su POLLARD, Brian SEWELL & John SERGEANT
> NBHJ188 [1999-05-12] Tony HAWKS, Jo BRAND, Gyles BRANDRETH & Peter JONES
> NBHJ189 [1999-04-23] Tony HAWKS, Jo BRAND, Gyles BRANDRETH & Peter JONES
> NBHJ190 [1999-04-28] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Richard VRANCH & Tom O'CONNOR
> NBHJ191 [1999-05-26] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Richard VRANCH & Tom O'CONNOR
> NBHJ192 [1999-05-05] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Ken BRUCE & Gyles BRANDRETH
> NBHJ193 [1999-05-14] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Ken BRUCE & Gyles BRANDRETH
> NBHJ194 [1999-04-21] Linda SMITH, Gary WILMOT, Isla BLAIR & Gyles BRANDRETH
> NBHJ195 [1999-05-03] Linda SMITH, Gary WILMOT, Isla BLAIR & Gyles BRANDRETH
> NBHJ196 [1999-04-22] Linda SMITH, Peter JONES, Wendy RICHARD & Pam AYRES
> NBHJ197 [1999-05-06] Linda SMITH, Peter JONES, Wendy RICHARD & Pam AYRES
> NBHJ198 [1999-04-27] Linda SMITH, Michael CASHMAN, Peter JONES & Maria MCERLANE
> NBHJ199 [1999-05-11] Linda SMITH, Michael CASHMAN, Peter JONES & Maria MCERLANE
> NBHJ200 [1999-05-04] Linda SMITH, Steve PUNT, Wendy RICHARD & Maria MCERLANE
> NBHJ201 [1999-05-13] Linda SMITH, Steve PUNT, Wendy RICHARD & Maria MCERLANE
>
> I've listed them by production IDs which is presumably the order they were recorded in. IIRC, Nicholas mentioned in his book that the whole series was done in a week which would suggest 4 shows a day!
>
> There was definitely no episode of Just A Minute shown on Friday, 7th May - in its place was a 95 minute election special entitled "Vote 99". That meant there was one odd episode that was eventually screened at 12.30pm on Wednesday, 26th May - a couple of weeks after the series has finished!
>
> I have verified the broadcast dates using programme listings published in The Times daily newspaper.
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> --- In just-a-minute@..., "martin_e_hood" <mhood@> wrote:
> >
> > Help Please?
> >
> > Thanks to Dean for his input.
> >
> > Can anyone confirm the provenance (original source) of these recordings or provide independent verification of the program broadcast dates and content?
> >
> > There is precious little information in the 1999 Radio Times listings and certainly nothing that would help identify individual episodes.
> >
>

 
<<<<   9034   >>>>

Topic: Re: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 10 / 12
martin_e_hoodJun 3, 2013
 

 
OK. It's not that simple since renumbering episodes 16 - 20 then makes the titles embedded in the videos inconsistent with the episode guide.

Another way of treating what happened is that the superseded program, 'Saying Sorry' be slotted in as episode 15 even though it was broadcast out of sequence at a later date. This just requires a straight swap of the two episodes in the listing, a change of the broadcast date and the inclusion of a note to explain the the reason for the discrepancy.

There is precedent for this approach to cataloging. The broadcast of an episode of The Goon Show, 'The Sleeping Prince', was deferred for three months due political sensitivities at the time, but is still generally sequenced according to when it WOULD have been first broadcast.

I commend this option for your consideration Dean.

Best regards,

Martin

--- In just-a-minute@..., "martin_e_hood" <mhood@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Excellent detective work Simon! It is great to get a listing like this that confirms the other entries in Dean's episode guide, clarifies the skipped broadcast on 1999.05.07 and confirms that a broadcast occurred on 1999.05.26.
>
> Charlie's subsequent post analyses the options.
>
> I agree with his analysis as it is the simplest solution, and hence usually the correct one.
>
> 1999.04.20 s03e02 'What I'd really like to Talk About' (Hawks/Richard/Frost/Balding) (as in the video itself)
>
> 1999.05.26 s03e20 'Saying Sorry' (Vranch/Goddard/Morton/O'Connor)
>
> With the current episodes 16-20 being renamed 15-19.
>
> As an aside, for this series, there is an indication of some forward planning for the actual broadcast date. In the episode:
>
> JAM TV - 1999-04-23 s03e05 #033 - St George's Day
>
> Nicholas says 'I've just realised something. The subject is so apt for today because it is St George's Day'.
>
> This indicates that the broadcast date for (at least) this episode must have been known or planned in advance. It is rare for such definitively date identifying statements to exist in panel game programs.
>
> Thanks again Simon for the information required to resolve this issue. I also look forward to any treasures you may unearth from your collection of VHS tapes.
>
> Martin
>
>
> --- In just-a-minute@..., "Simon B Kelly" <simonbkelly@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've checked the BBC Programme Archive database and copied the production IDs, broadcast dates and guests for the 20 episodes shown in 1999. They are as follows:
> >
> > NBHJ182 [1999-04-20] Tony HAWKS, Clare BALDING, Wendy RICHARD & Stephen FROST
> > NBHJ183 [1999-04-29] Tony HAWKS, Clare BALDING, Wendy RICHARD & Stephen FROST
> > NBHJ184 [1999-04-26] Barry CRYER, Wendy RICHARD, Stephen FROST & Tony HAWKS
> > NBHJ185 [1999-05-10] Barry CRYER, Wendy RICHARD, Stephen FROST & Tony HAWKS
> > NBHJ186 [1999-04-19] Barry CRYER, Su POLLARD, Brian SEWELL & John SERGEANT
> > NBHJ187 [1999-04-30] Barry CRYER, Su POLLARD, Brian SEWELL & John SERGEANT
> > NBHJ188 [1999-05-12] Tony HAWKS, Jo BRAND, Gyles BRANDRETH & Peter JONES
> > NBHJ189 [1999-04-23] Tony HAWKS, Jo BRAND, Gyles BRANDRETH & Peter JONES
> > NBHJ190 [1999-04-28] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Richard VRANCH & Tom O'CONNOR
> > NBHJ191 [1999-05-26] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Richard VRANCH & Tom O'CONNOR
> > NBHJ192 [1999-05-05] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Ken BRUCE & Gyles BRANDRETH
> > NBHJ193 [1999-05-14] Liza GODDARD, Richard MORTON, Ken BRUCE & Gyles BRANDRETH
> > NBHJ194 [1999-04-21] Linda SMITH, Gary WILMOT, Isla BLAIR & Gyles BRANDRETH
> > NBHJ195 [1999-05-03] Linda SMITH, Gary WILMOT, Isla BLAIR & Gyles BRANDRETH
> > NBHJ196 [1999-04-22] Linda SMITH, Peter JONES, Wendy RICHARD & Pam AYRES
> > NBHJ197 [1999-05-06] Linda SMITH, Peter JONES, Wendy RICHARD & Pam AYRES
> > NBHJ198 [1999-04-27] Linda SMITH, Michael CASHMAN, Peter JONES & Maria MCERLANE
> > NBHJ199 [1999-05-11] Linda SMITH, Michael CASHMAN, Peter JONES & Maria MCERLANE
> > NBHJ200 [1999-05-04] Linda SMITH, Steve PUNT, Wendy RICHARD & Maria MCERLANE
> > NBHJ201 [1999-05-13] Linda SMITH, Steve PUNT, Wendy RICHARD & Maria MCERLANE
> >
> > I've listed them by production IDs which is presumably the order they were recorded in. IIRC, Nicholas mentioned in his book that the whole series was done in a week which would suggest 4 shows a day!
> >
> > There was definitely no episode of Just A Minute shown on Friday, 7th May - in its place was a 95 minute election special entitled "Vote 99". That meant there was one odd episode that was eventually screened at 12.30pm on Wednesday, 26th May - a couple of weeks after the series has finished!
> >
> > I have verified the broadcast dates using programme listings published in The Times daily newspaper.
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In just-a-minute@..., "martin_e_hood" <mhood@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Help Please?
> > >
> > > Thanks to Dean for his input.
> > >
> > > Can anyone confirm the provenance (original source) of these recordings or provide independent verification of the program broadcast dates and content?
> > >
> > > There is precious little information in the 1999 Radio Times listings and certainly nothing that would help identify individual episodes.
> > >
> >
>

 
<<<<   9035   >>>>

Topic: Re: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 11 / 12
charles_rookeJun 4, 2013
 

 
I wouldn't worry about the embedded video titles myself. It should be easy enough to delete them with an avi file editor if desired.

Where they are different I suppose it depends upon whether one prefers "intended broadcast order" or "actual broadcast order". However, I have some difficulty in using a possible/presumed intended order (as opposed to a known one). In this case we don't have an sXXeXX number provided by the BBC and as far as I can see we can't tell where "Saying Sorry" was in the original intended broadcast order. Each set of four panelists appears twice, but I can find no discernable pattern in their broadcast order.

In the absence of further data I would incline to what we now believe to be the actual broadcast order (ie. renumbering 16-20 as 15-19). However, as I said before, I prefer to stay in accord with Dean's site - so I'll await his decision.

Charlie

--- In just-a-minute@..., "martin_e_hood" <mhood@...> wrote:
>
>
> OK. It's not that simple since renumbering episodes 16 - 20 then makes the titles embedded in the videos inconsistent with the episode guide.
>
>

 
<<<<   9080   >>>>

Topic: Re: Mislabeled JAM TV Programme?

Message 12 / 12
DeanJun 14, 2013